Advice on a spell/power adventure idea

[Taran]

If you're Playing Dresden in North Bay, ON, READ NO FURTHER.

o.k, so I have an adventure idea that revolves around a shapeshifting party member.

A bad guy summons a demon to get it to do nasty things.  In return the demon wants the freedom to do as it pleases (this is a very, very rough explanation of the pact)

My idea was to have an entity who attracts  shapeshifters in a large area to him(several kilometers radius)and "forces" them to want to shift into their particular forms.

The reason the entity does this is because he's stealing their "human form" so that it can eventually walk among the mortals without having to use his energy creating a physical form for itself and no longer needs to rely on its summoner to stay in the mortal realm.

Everytime the demon forces shifters to change form, it steals their human side, eventually leaving their animalistic sides behind.

So a shapeshifting wolf, would become a wolf always.  Or, for instance, a human who gets an aspect of the wolf during the full moon would run around thinking he's a wolf during the full moon, but any other time of the month he'd be catatonic because there would be nothing human left.

So how do I do this?
One way I was thinking of giving the PC Plot driven "involuntary Change" and tying it to an aspect. (he'd get an extra refresh until they solve the mystery or until he's driven mad)
I was also thinking of giving the demon a form of "incite emotion" (to get them to want to shift) and " eat power" to steal abilities...but you can't really steal non-abilities, ie: humaness

I want to give the PC (and the other shifters) a discipline check to resist the compusion which gets harder everytime they are affected.  So another way, maybe, is a spell that causes mental damage, with consequences that I can compel like, "must go hunting" or "wants to be a dog" etc..that way they can slowly insane and when they get taken out it means they've been fully transformed.  But what kind of spell would that be and what would the mechanics of it be?  It would be cast from a Place of Power at the very least.

[devonapple]

The things which I feel most clearly connote "humanity" in DFRPG are:

1) Aspects
2) Skills that assume one has a human form or reasoning
3) Stunts that rely on a human form or reasoning, or on skills that require same
4) Refresh (optional)

There is already a Supernatural Ability called Mimic Abilities which has a trapping called "Eat Power" (YS 176) as well as Stunts and Skills, and your monster sounds like it is doing some variant of that that. Add in a Mental Attack which can deal Mental Consequences, and you should be good.

[Tedronai]

A fully transformative process being forced on the shapeshifter, you're looking at an attack, probably mental, requiring a full 'Taken Out' result to have the effect you want, and modeling the result by way of an Extreme Consequence.

[ryanshowseason2]

A fully transformative process being forced on the shapeshifter, you're looking at an attack, probably mental, requiring a full 'Taken Out' result to have the effect you want, and modeling the result by way of an Extreme Consequence.

This.

Extreme consequences by nature should force the victim to change their high aspect. By forcing one through a mental attack you should have leeway to add something like "souless" or "animalistic" perhaps even something along the lines of "soul split".

[Tedronai]

This.

Extreme consequences by nature should force the victim to change their high aspect.

They don't necessarily change the character's High Concept, though they MIGHT.  They DO change one of the character's aspects (actually, they cause one to be replaced, which is different, if a subtle distinction).

[Richard_Chilton]

You could always negotiate this.  Something like:
"Plot is about to hit.  Do you want to accept two chips in exchange for being taken out between scenes? It won't be anything fatal - in fact you'll just black out for a while." Or "All that will happen is you'll go wolf for a while."

If they don't, roll a Good mental attack on the character and do stress and consequences normally.  

Then start offering more chips and / or increase the attack as play goes on.  Point out that things are getting worse and if things get bad enough the PC might need to use an extreme to soak it - and you've already picked out an extreme - "Stays in animal form".

Richard

[Tedronai]

Addendum: this attack probably DOES justify (possibly even mandate) changing the High Concept of a victim, as that High Concept likely includes the ability to shapeshift, and this attack is meant to remove that ability

Your high concept cannot be changed as a
result of an extreme consequence, unless the
attack in question is deliberately targeting
that aspect. In other words, you can’t change
Wizard of the White Council unless the
attack is specifically trying to permanently strip
you of magical ability.

[Taran]

You could always negotiate this.  Something like:
"Plot is about to hit.  Do you want to accept two chips in exchange for being taken out between scenes? It won't be anything fatal - in fact you'll just black out for a while." Or "All that will happen is you'll go wolf for a while."

If they don't, roll a Good mental attack on the character and do stress and consequences normally.  

Then start offering more chips and / or increase the attack as play goes on.  Point out that things are getting worse and if things get bad enough the PC might need to use an extreme to soak it - and you've already picked out an extreme - "Stays in animal form".

Richard

All this happening to the PC was just to clue them into the bigger picture of what's going on.  I was going to do it this way:

"adventure is happening...suddenly you don't feel well, make a discipline roll"  If they fail, then they might take mental stress, and perhaps a consequence.  And I'll leave it at that.  Maybe I'll offer them a fate point, "if you fail your discipline, you'll wake up the next morning naked in the woods.  You don't know what happened and you have a mild consequence...or you can roll discipline and see what happens".

Each time the Power or spell hits the PC, if he fails his check, he is forced into his animal form and takes a consequence or damage...he may or may not remember what happened.  I can compel it in inopportune times, maybe in a scene where diplomacy is needed.  And maybe not a full change...just enough to make him aggressive, etc...

Once it happens a few times, he'll want to figure out what's happening and it'll lead them to whatever is going on.  Hmmm, maybe this is exactly what you're saying.  It's the mechanics of it that I'm tripping over, though.

[devonapple]

Once it happens a few times, he'll want to figure out what's happening and it'll lead them to whatever is going on.  Hmmm, maybe this is exactly what you're saying.  It's the mechanics of it that I'm tripping over, though.

There are two things to consider:
1) Is this just a plot hook to get the players investigating?
2) Once the PCs are investigating and aware of the problem, can this attack actually be used against their shapeshifter?

If 1, but not 2, then keep doing it the way you are doing it.
If 1 and 2, then you will want to find a fair way to stat out the Transformation attack so it is a challenge to be resisted, an actual struggle, rather than simply a cheap way to incapacitate the shapeshifter. The shapeshifter may end up opting to stay in another city while this is going on, so as to protect his or her friends from the risk of an uncontrolled transformation.

[Tedronai]

All this happening to the PC was just to clue them into the bigger picture of what's going on.  I was going to do it this way:

"adventure is happening...suddenly you don't feel well, make a discipline roll"  If they fail, then they might take mental stress, and perhaps a consequence.  And I'll leave it at that.  Maybe I'll offer them a fate point, "if you fail your discipline, you'll wake up the next morning naked in the woods.  You don't know what happened and you have a mild consequence...or you can roll discipline and see what happens".

Sounds to me like a compel against a consequence potentially inflicted by this attack (and as such the details should be negotiable), probably at least a moderate consequence.

Each time the Power or spell hits the PC, if he fails his check, he is forced into his animal form and takes a consequence or damage...he may or may not remember what happened.  I can compel it in inopportune times, maybe in a scene where diplomacy is needed.  And maybe not a full change...just enough to make him aggressive, etc...

Once it happens a few times, he'll want to figure out what's happening and it'll lead them to whatever is going on.  Hmmm, maybe this is exactly what you're saying.  It's the mechanics of it that I'm tripping over, though.

situationally-inappropriate aggressiveness is easily within the scope of a minor consequence from an attack such as this
perhaps even a partial shapeshifting at an inopportune time (in the presence of 'straights', for instance)

[Richard_Chilton]

Once it happens a few times, he'll want to figure out what's happening and it'll lead them to whatever is going on.  Hmmm, maybe this is exactly what you're saying.  It's the mechanics of it that I'm tripping over, though.

That's more or less what I was saying.  The mechanics, well, they are always up to debate.  

But here's a suggestion: Instead of it being at the worse possible, maybe at significant time.

Say it starts 4:56 every other day as a Mediocre attack.  After two or three times it starts to happen every day.  After a few days of this, it starts to happen 4:52 (or 4:49, some odd time) as an Average attack.  After a few days of this, it comes a bit earlier as a Fair attack - so the players can see this is escalating.  Maybe some research could determine that it's counting down to 3:02 when it will be a +10 or +20 attack.

3:02 representing when the pact was signed.  That's when the demon does some rite or something to exercise his power.  That gives them a clue of when they have to strike while showing how it's getting worse and worse.

Richard

[Tedronai]

I'd recommend starting the attack at at least fair, for it to seem actually threatening
a mediocre attack, frankly, should almost never be landing a hit on anything but a mook, and probably a noncombatant one, at that
and when it comes to action of NPC vs NPC, pure narration, without any rolls whatsoever, is easier and usually better

[Taran]

There are two things to consider:
1) Is this just a plot hook to get the players investigating?
2) Once the PCs are investigating and aware of the problem, can this attack actually be used against their shapeshifter?

If 1, but not 2, then keep doing it the way you are doing it.
If 1 and 2, then you will want to find a fair way to stat out the Transformation attack so it is a challenge to be resisted, an actual struggle, rather than simply a cheap way to incapacitate the shapeshifter. The shapeshifter may end up opting to stay in another city while this is going on, so as to protect his or her friends from the risk of an uncontrolled transformation.

I was thinking both 1 and 2, although he wouldn't have to leave the city because the radius isn't going to be city-wide.  I figured he'd experience one or two strange events, maybe be carrying around a moderate mental consequence.  There will be an NPC experiencing the same things, but will  be worse off and  that will give them additional clues as to the when and where things are going on.  But I figure, in a full-out fight, this power could be used against him.  This is why I want to figure out the power/attack.  It sounds like a power that might be better done as a spell resisted by discipline.  Some kind of mental attack from afar.  I'd only do the "you wolf-out and don't remember what happened" as a compel, but not in an actual fight.  But you're right, it'd suck if he chose to sit out and not risk his allies.  While I don't forsee that, Players always do what you don't expect.   Fortunately he has the aspect, "never back down" 

[Taran]

That's more or less what I was saying.  The mechanics, well, they are always up to debate.  

But here's a suggestion: Instead of it being at the worse possible, maybe at significant time.

So I shouldn't worry about the mechanics too much.  Just make it a mental attack at "x" ability that does stress and theme-appropriate consequences.  See, I was worried I'd have to work out some thaumaturgical-type spell and figure out all the shifts etc...

I'd have to figure a rough ball-park as to what the level of this ability is to determine the refresh of the monster for when or if they fight it.

[sinker]

So I shouldn't worry about the mechanics too much.  Just make it a mental attack at "x" ability that does stress and theme-appropriate consequences.  See, I was worried I'd have to work out some thaumaturgical-type spell and figure out all the shifts etc...

You CAN do that. Or you can just say it works. The GM gets to cheat like that.