How big would a sword have to be to count as weapon rating 4

[Sanctaphrax]

Berserk is a stunt. Gard has it in OW, so does the Lycanthrope Berserker on the Generic NPC thread.

I'm inclined to agree with UmbraLux about the way to approach this, but I am willing to stretch things up until about weapon 4. That's what I gave my Mythically Strong PC for throwing a car.

By the way Koffeykid, your example is actually all that hard. It involves a Superb skill, 7 refresh after discounts, a somewhat specialized situation, some quasi-legit stunt stacking, a -1 penalty to defence, and an inability to retreat. It isn't easy.

And on another note, I've been thinking lately about translating stuff from Exalted into DFRPG. It seems to be more or less impossible.

[bitterpill]

I don't think stacking true strike and an accuracy + stunt is against the rules because one raises the skill whilst the other just raises the accuracy in a certain situation.

[Sanctaphrax]

Well, that's not what I was talking about.

I meant stacking +1 stress from Berserk and +2 stress from Off Hand Weapon Training. Although depending on the weapon rating of the second weapon, Koffeykid may actually not have been stacking them. It's a little hard to tell.

Incidentally, I would definitely allow those stunts to stack. But I felt that I should mention it, since I was listing everything that I could think of.

[zenten]

So if I manage to drop a car on someone it should just be +2 damage?

[KOFFEYKID]

its

A Weapon 3 IoP + 1 (Off Hand Training with a Weapon 2) + 6 (Mythic Strength) + 1 (Berserk) = Weapon: 11 Rating.

Accuracy is 5 (Weapon Skill) + 1 (True Strike, Its a Power so it will stack with Stunts) + 1 (Berserk) = 7

[devonapple]

So if I manage to drop a car on someone it should just be +2 damage?

Throwing a Car: If you are strong enough to lift and throw a car (14-15 ranks of effective Might depending on the size of the car), then I might consider it a Weapon:5, which is the normal damage of a car in motion. I can be talked out of it, of course, but it seems to be within the rules.

Dropping a Car:If you only have 8-9 effective ranks in Might, your GM could allow you to make a Might-based Maneuver regarding the car, and then you free-tag that Aspect on a followup Weapons roll, which would be as you say, +2. You would have to attack something in the same Zone.

See "Lifting" in YS 321 for additional rules about Might/Lifting ratios and what you can do with it besides. You may be able to carry that car a short distance before dropping it if you have 10-13 ranks of Might.

[Tedronai]

Dropping a Car:If you only have 8-9 effective ranks in Might, your GM could allow you to make a Might-based Maneuver regarding the car, and then you free-tag that Aspect on a followup Weapons roll, which would be as you say, +2. You would have to attack something in the same Zone.

How far is it being dropped?

[devonapple]

How far is it being dropped?

Depends how tall the lifter is. We don't need to get terribly scientific about this, of course.

However, if you are angling to get more damage by tossing a car from a great height ONTO someone, the rules already address trying to use gravity as a damage shortcut in the Falling rules (YS319):

"The falling rules are not an invitation for super-strong characters and spellcasters to start picking people up and tossing them to a great height, only to fall down and take egregious falling damage. That’s an attack, and the stress dealt by any falling component is already included in the stress of the attack. If your force-bolt “uppercuts” a guy so he flies up and then falls back down with a crunch of bone, the damage dealt by the attack itself accounts for the “fall back down” part—essentially, in this case, falling is a special effect, a detail of color."

[Tedronai]

Depends how tall the lifter is. We don't need to get terribly scientific about this, of course.

However, if you are angling to get more damage by tossing a car from a great height ONTO someone, the rules already address trying to use gravity as a damage shortcut in the Falling rules (YS319):

"The falling rules are not an invitation for super-strong characters and spellcasters to start picking people up and tossing them to a great height, only to fall down and take egregious falling damage. That’s an attack, and the stress dealt by any falling component is already included in the stress of the attack. If your force-bolt “uppercuts” a guy so he flies up and then falls back down with a crunch of bone, the damage dealt by the attack itself accounts for the “fall back down” part—essentially, in this case, falling is a special effect, a detail of color."

The rules address throwing the TARGET as a shortcut to damage

They do NOT address what you're suggesting: essentially lowering the damage because the weapon isn't travelling fast enough, ie. falling far enough

So...How about dropping it off the roof of a 5-story parking complex?  Does it get its full damage rating then?
What about dropping it out of the back of a cargo plane at several thousand feet?  Does it get its full damage rating then?

[devonapple]

Further information - YS 326: "Impact Damage: At some point, you may want to have one character try to hit another character with a car or other speeding object. This can be considered an attack using Weapon:5(!) for the car. Generally, most massive objects like that should be about Weapon:4 or Weapon:5, like explosives—only the hardiest of supernatural creatures should be able to shrug them off."

So...How about dropping it off the roof of a 5-story parking complex?  Does it get its full damage rating then?
What about dropping it out of the back of a cargo plane at several thousand feet?  Does it get its full damage rating then?

Well, sure, but in those cases, how are you managing to aim where it falls? Edit: by which I mean "aim at a target creature who might be inclined to get out of the way."

If a character has enough Might to use an object as a Thrown Weapon, it implies that character can make a Weapons roll to place where it goes. In which case I can see it being a Weapon:5 in the situations you propose. But if a character can barely heft a car and drop it, I have no faith that the character can aim it with any reliability, so it is only worth the +2 for tagging it as a Maneuver Aspect.

They do NOT address what you're suggesting: essentially lowering the damage because the weapon isn't travelling fast enough, ie. falling far enough

I consider this an acceptable extension of the spirit of the Falling rules.

[Tedronai]

narrated as waiting for the target to be more or less 'in the shadow' of the item to be dropped (the attacker can probably manage to 'nudge' the object a bit off a pure vertical trajectory, and will likely have to 'lead' the target if they're moving around meaningfully), but mechanically, that's likely just a situational bonus to the defense roll or a penalty to the attack roll
it's NOT a penalty to the weapon rating should the object manage to connect

[devonapple]

narrated as waiting for the target to be more or less 'in the shadow' of the item to be dropped (the attacker can probably manage to 'nudge' the object a bit off a pure vertical trajectory, and will likely have to 'lead' the target if they're moving around meaningfully), but mechanically, that's likely just a situational bonus to the defense roll or a penalty to the attack roll
it's NOT a penalty to the weapon rating should the object manage to connect

"In the shadow"? You are aware the sun has this habit of moving across the sky during the day, right? Gravity and momentum don't follow shadows.

Taking "in the shadow" figuratively (as I believe you meant it), I get what what you are saying, but I contend that executing such a drop accurately is a lot easier to say than it is to do. Pilots require a great deal of training to do that reliably, and they are just hitting a button. A character who is trying to push a car out of a plane (without the strength to physically heave it and throw it) is straining against the object, pushing, heaving, swaying, and generally hefting it about without a lot of finesse.

But you can play it however you like in your game. I'm satisfied with my interpretation of the rules at this time.

[Tedronai]

"In the shadow"? You are aware the sun has this habit of moving across the sky during the day, right? Gravity and momentum don't follow shadows.

Taking "in the shadow" figuratively (as I believe you meant it),

thus the quotes, yes

I get what what you are saying, but I contend that executing such a drop accurately is a lot easier to say than it is to do. Pilots require a great deal of training to do that reliably, and they are just hitting a button. A character who is trying to push a car out of a plane (without the strength to physically heave it and throw it) is straining against the object, pushing, heaving, swaying, and generally hefting it about without a lot of finesse.

But you can play it however you like in your game. I'm satisfied with my interpretation of the rules at this time.

Difficulty in hitting the target should be represented as difficulty in hitting the target, not in the magnitude of effect produced on success

[Becq]

I could see a chainsaw as qualifying as a w:4 sword.  It would likely be very "Unwieldy" though.

[Bruce Coulson]

And subject to the tag, "out of gas".  (Or 'low on gas', if the character is trapped in time and surrounded by evil...)