Gamemaster Evaluation

[Paynesgrey]

Is it a "no win situation?"  Are there multiple possitible actions he could find or invent that would allow him to save the child and hte world?

 It sounds like you give your players room to invent solutions, so my impression is that the problem is with this player's personality and not your GM skillz.  

A potential loophole someone could point out to him:  Given the power and importance of Free Will in the Dresdenverse, despite the blood baptizing and whatnot.... are parents even able to sell or bargain an infant's soul?  To quote a poet by the name of Kahlil Gibran:

Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.

You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

You are the bows from which your children
as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and He bends you with His might
that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable.

(What would be really funny if the whole thing was just a scam to hook the souls of all the adults involved.  What could better guarantee a southbound ticket than making a choice and effort to kill and damn a child?  Like those FBI scams where they offer to help some clowns blow up some innocent people.  Tempt a fellow into trying to do something that will get him damned, even though it's not even possible for him to actually succeed in his attempt.)

If this is the way "souls" and choice work in your game universe, then the parent's can't obligate the child's soul, it's not theirs to peddle.  They can get the child killed, influence her choices towards darkness and corruption to predisposer her to choosing things that will lead her on a southerly path, but have no say on where her soul is bound for.  An involuntary possession would hardly blemish the innocent soul of a child, I'm thinking.  Seal it up in the attic of the mind where it is innocent of whatever acts the skinriding demon commits, or compels the child to commit.  Or the soul could be driven out and replaced by the Bad Thing, sending it on it's way to the afterlife while the empty husk is taken over by the demon.  Either way, the child's soul is not in peril of damnation even if the character fails.

IF that's the way things work in your game world, then it could be the player has put on some blinders as to possible solutions (Or is just being an ass).  If it's a case of not letting himself think outside the box, then some more breadcrumbs are in order to help the player figure out it's not a black or black Damned or Dead choice.  Likewise, you can provide hints at opportunities for him to short circuit the Coming of Badness.  

[Oriande]

Yes, it is a harsh dilemma. The player wants his character to receive/ wield a holy sword as a Champion of God. We started at Refresh 7 and have been working towards this. The current situation is meant as a Test of Faith or Test of the Heart in order to prove him worthy of this legacy.

Beyond that, I should probably also clarify that the question is not black-and-white. There are different possible solutions and outcomes. Could the cultist succeed? Of course, and the characters have already had a glimpse of what that future could entail. Can the child be saved?  Again, yes, depending on what the players choose to do both now and later. 

So…That being said, what I’m looking for from the character in question is not so much what he decides as what his motives are for that decision.  If he kills the girl because he honestly believes that is the only way to save the world, he has not failed.  If he kills her simply because it is the easiest solution, then he has failed.  Similarly, if he lets her live because he is afraid that he will go to prison, that is entirely different than if he refuses to kill a potential innocent.  I liked his proposed solution! It was great. I just wanted him to show some faith in it… not to immediately turn aside in case he is wrong. 

[Paynesgrey]

Gotcha.  That being the case, perhaps a thicker trail of bread crumbs leading him to that understanding... that the why is the test, not the what.  Or is the player making a concious decision to ignore any and all breadcrumbs?  Like someone who remains determined to dislike something for no purpose other than to remain "faithful" to their initial, if erroneous, impression.

[Drachasor]

Again, not that harsh a dilemma if he just has to give an honest effort -- I am not saying this is a bad thing at all, and I find your challenge to be quite appropriate.  I think the player might be getting upset their Holy Sword isn't coming super-easy.  Honestly, sounds like the player might not have the temperament to properly play a holy warrior if he's constantly thinking self-centered (and petty) thoughts about his character.

That said, not sure it is bad if he prepares for the worst and hopes for the best.  Faith doesn't have to mean he's stupid.  From how you described it, sounds like the player was extremely frustrated though and just said because he wanted to stop playing for a while.

[deathwombat]

Keep us posted.

[Ren]

Well you've already got a pretty good Carrot to follow up the stick you are beating him with.
Give him an out, heck give him more than one, but they all have consequences. The greatest Act of Faith that anyone can commit is Sacrifice. So the final test could be an opportunity for him to take the Curse or whatnot onto himself, so HE will be the one forced to deal with the constant temptation of the angry but still subtle demonic master. Then it turns into an ongoing challenge for the character and a new aspect to boot "The Demon on my Shoulder"! That's almost classic Dresden there and having a Demon on Board could present its own benefits as well as complications.

The easiest way to introduce such a concept would be via a book; he or a scholar he knows finds a book that has a ritual to re-direct whatever ritual was used on the child, the catch to it being that he has to take the curse onto himself...THEN see what he does...heck have fun and make it a little more obvious by giving the ritual a pseudo-Chrisitian name like "The Penitent Man" or "Redemption of the Innocent".

Of course this won't help if this is an out-of-game issue... but it could make the ordeal a sweeter pill to swallow. So otherwise just gonna have to sit him down and ask him what his real problem with the situation is...and if he lames out...*shrug*

[Katarn]

Yes, it is a harsh dilemma. The player wants his character to receive/ wield a holy sword as a Champion of God. We started at Refresh 7 and have been working towards this. The current situation is meant as a Test of Faith or Test of the Heart in order to prove him worthy of this legacy.

*This is a harsh dilemma- both ingame and metagame.
*Given the goal- a holy sword- this seems appropriate.
*Let him discover this is the reason for the test.  Don't directly tell him.  Either have an NPC drop hints or keep using words like "test" during his turns.

If things deteriorate consider telling him that it's a test for a sword.  Keep us posted, I'm curious how this ends.

[admiralducksauce]

Sometimes players build aspects and traits into their characters that they don't actually want to be challenged at every turn.  Just like showing an interest in befriending an NPC doesn't always mean the GM has to kidnap or kill those NPCs, this character's faith may be something the player wants as a cornerstone of their character, something immutable.  They might be perfectly happy with you turning the screws on another part of their character.

However... what you're saying sounds like this ain't the problem.  The player called you a bitch and flipped you off when you presented the problem.  So far his solutions have been those of a lazy cleric.  Splash holy water, collect Sword of the Cross?  Petulant and indignant when that fails.  Complains that another PC would raise holy hell if he killed the child?  Make it obvious that you don't see that as the only way out, and it's not your intention for the True Believer to fall so easily into "kill the kid, collect Sword of the Cross".

After his one good idea, he then goes to the range and gets all passive-aggressive and goes to texting on his phone.  Now the player is disrespecting your time and the group's time.  He is the bitch now.

I think the player might be getting upset their Holy Sword isn't coming super-easy.  Honestly, sounds like the player might not have the temperament to properly play a holy warrior if he's constantly thinking self-centered (and petty) thoughts about his character.

Drachasor has the right of it IMO.  The player wants to play a lazy fuckin' cleric, to toss holy water at the problem and go home for pancakes.  Lazy clerics don't get Swords of the Cross.  The player doesn't want to engage himself in the game like the other players.  That's a shame, but hey, work with that.  He doesn't have to be in the spotlight.  A lazy cleric can be an excellent supporting role.  It's just too bad that your plot right now kind of centers on his faith and you've discovered that he's a terrible holy man.

I certainly don't know your bitch player's religious tendencies if any, but my more suspicious mind wonders if he is playing a shitty priest to act out passive aggressive feelings towards religion?  Playing a lazy cleric might be how he sees the faithful.  He might be trying to make some misguided point.  That too is okay, but you might want to sit down and rework his Aspects.  

I would plan for a failure scenario.  The kid gets possessed and twists into some kind of terrible soulless beast that the party can kill without remorse in case ApathyMan over here can't be arsed to care about his character's motivations or the situation before him.

EDIT: I disagree with Katarn.  Be open and explicit about the situation with the player.  Fuck immersion and player/character knowledge splits.  Tell him exactly what the stakes are here.

[Paynesgrey]

It does sound like the GM'ing and the storytelling aren't the problem, rather the problem is the personality of this particular player I'm afraid.  The solution appears to be based on nerd herding people skills, how much effort is it worth to keep this player in the group, that sort of thing.  Some times a player is a great fella to have around, who just has the odd personality issue... other times you get a player who really just brings nothing to the table as a friend or playmate.  I can say that while my old players and I constantly flipped each other off and called each other names, it was just because of our vulgar and course nature, there was no anger and it certainly wasn't "heartfelt."

Something you don't need to answer here, but should think about:  Is this player bringing more positive things to your game than he is negative?  Unless he's a close personal friend of yours or some vital member(s) of the group, it might be time to find a new playmate.  We gamer geeks are often introverts and understandably don't like the thought of kicking a fellow misfit out of a group, but if all he's doing is poisoning things...

[TheMouse]

This sounds like one of those situations where you need to sit down and converse with the player. Ask him what the issue is, what's not fun for him. Ask him what he thinks would be more fun. Tell him what you're hoping to do with the situation and see if that's cool with him. Keep in mind that while it's okay for things to suck for the character, it's not cool if it sucks for the player.

[Katarn]

EDIT: I disagree with Katarn.  Be open and explicit about the situation with the player.  Fuck immersion and player/character knowledge splits.  Tell him exactly what the stakes are here.

depends on the person methinks.  But yea considering what we know about this guy "explicit" might be the way to go.  If it were a less whiny player I'd hint at it (it's actually what I'd prefer were I the cleric).  Depends on the player.  In this case, if you tell him you get it out in the open if it's the conflict in-game or if it's the player.  As said above, find out if the player has issues with religion, and if he's integral to your party.

[Seb Wiers]

Harsh dilema?  I don't even see any alternatives.  The child needs to be protected and observed.  The demon, when it approaches, will need to be fought, with whatever allies and weapons can be mustered.  I forsee an epic battle in the never-never, or some sort of ritual excommunication taking place in heavily warded holy sanctum.

The great thing about playing a character who has Faith is that overwhelming odds are and opportunity to prove your faith, be it through triumph in the face of adversity or death in the service of that faith.  If the player is not embracing that ethos, then he's treating Faith like its a 9 to 5 job rather than a Calling.

[newtinmpls]

I love dilemmas like this; this is the pinnacle of role playing potential.

While in real life, I don't think I would "kill the child", I also don't see too many actual demonic possessions happening. In role playing, I get to live in a world that is more intense, more dangerous (okay If I really wanted real life danger THAT much I suppose I could volunteer in war-torn country or something - so clearly I don't).

If the player is busy texting his GF during the game, and his consultations with other players are about consequences, not about PLAYING his character, maybe he's missing the point of an RPG in the first place.

Dian

[Ren]

So what happened? Inquiring minds want to know!

[bitterpill]

I know what my PC True Believer would do he would kill the child and claim he was sending her soul to god to save her from the corruption of Satan because the soul is eternal and life is ephemeral (He would spend a session convincing himself of this perhaps with scripture or alcohol).