The Feel of the DF: Witticisms

[sinker]

In addition, while also barely present, Bartitsu has also survived from the Victorian era, though mostly dormant in the 20th century, the style exists, having found an upswing this past decade.

Bartitsu didn't "Survive" the Victorian era, it was invented in the early 1900s.

[Amseriah]

Yes, but there were martial arts that Knights and such were trained in.  Heck, we don't even have very good records overall of the fighting styles with swords and other weapons.  A LOT was lost even if some survives, especially compared to the Far East as best I understand it.

There are manuals from German and Italian sword-fighting schools (actual combat not fencing) that have survived and have been reprinted, they have very good pictures of the manuevers and some text (none of it originally in English although there are some that have translations of the text as well).  Unfortunately while there are now groups, mainly in Europe, that are dedicated to the relearning of these techniques we don't have a direct line of heritage so most of what is happening is studying the pictures and filling in the blanks with what we know of martial arts and body mechanics.  Essentially we are using the wisdom of the old masters to create new systems that are like the old ones.

German school:  http://www.chivalrybookshelf.com/titles/ringeck/ringeck.htm
Italian school:  http://www.thearma.org/Manuals/Liberi.htm

[Drachasor]

There are manuals from German and Italian sword-fighting schools (actual combat not fencing) that have survived and have been reprinted, they have very good pictures of the manuevers and some text (none of it originally in English although there are some that have translations of the text as well).  Unfortunately while there are now groups, mainly in Europe, that are dedicated to the relearning of these techniques we don't have a direct line of heritage so most of what is happening is studying the pictures and filling in the blanks with what we know of martial arts and body mechanics.  Essentially we are using the wisdom of the old masters to create new systems that are like the old ones.

German school:  http://www.chivalrybookshelf.com/titles/ringeck/ringeck.htm
Italian school:  http://www.thearma.org/Manuals/Liberi.htm

We have bits and pieces and some groups are trying to put them back together.  A TON has been lost.

[Warpmind]

Bartitsu didn't "Survive" the Victorian era, it was invented in the early 1900s.

Technically, I believe it was originally formalised in 1898. Hence, at the very end of the Victorian era (1837-1901).
Granted, the style is an odd mix of boxing, jujutsu, savate and Vigny stick fighting...

Oh, man, it was the original MMA style... O.o

[Shecky]

...The Marquess of Queensberry rolls in his grave, weeping.

In addition, while also barely present, Bartitsu has also survived from the Victorian era, though mostly dormant in the 20th century, the style exists, having found an upswing this past decade.

Marquis-of-Queensbury-style "martial arts" are largely highly-codified, polite-society fisticuffs; I wouldn't class them as an effective, all-around martial art.

Bartitsu? No offense, but I've never heard of it. Can't really call that "surviving" and definitely not "flourishing".

[bibliophile20]

Marquis-of-Queensbury-style "martial arts" are largely highly-codified, polite-society fisticuffs; I wouldn't class them as an effective, all-around martial art.

Agreed; I just remember the dead-on parody of them that Sir Pratchett did in Discworld, with the Marquis of Fantailler rules. "Inventor of a list of rules on the manly art of pugilism, involved chest out-thrust and fist balled in a spirit of manly aggression, as well as places were you are not allowed to hit an opponent.

The rules are not much use against an opponent who does not abide by the rules, for example using a chair to batter the user of the rules senseless. The last words of many a fighter are "Stuff the bloody Marquis of Fantailler..."."

[Warpmind]

Marquis-of-Queensbury-style "martial arts" are largely highly-codified, polite-society fisticuffs; I wouldn't class them as an effective, all-around martial art.

Bartitsu? No offense, but I've never heard of it. Can't really call that "surviving" and definitely not "flourishing".

No offense taken, though I don't recall claiming Bartitsu was ever "flourishing". Surviving, yes, even reviving, but it's definitely a niche martial art.
Actually, Sherlock Holmes was supposed to be quite adept at the style, fictional though he may have been. (Though Sir Arthur did make an error in referring to it as "Baritsu"...)

On another note, is it a necessity for a style that you must have heard of it for it to be counted as "surviving"?

[Shecky]

It would sort of be required for at least a large segment of society to be aware of it, wouldn't it? Perhaps not me personally, of course, but since I'm reasonably well-read and have never seen it even mentioned (an odd word like that will almost always catch my attention), I think it's a safe conclusion. La savate I've seen mentioned and even talked about (and you see a fair amount of it in martial-arts movies of our time), but not bartitsu. To use a natural-world approximation, while it may not be extinct, it's at least on the verge thereof, while la savate, although endangered, is a bit more present - la savate still has a sizeable number of practicioners in Europe, along with scattered pockets elsewhere, whereas bartitsu is pretty much at the scattered-pockets level everywhere.

[Warpmind]

It would sort of be required for at least a large segment of society to be aware of it, wouldn't it? Perhaps not me personally, of course, but since I'm reasonably well-read and have never seen it even mentioned (an odd word like that will almost always catch my attention), I think it's a safe conclusion. La savate I've seen mentioned and even talked about (and you see a fair amount of it in martial-arts movies of our time), but not bartitsu. To use a natural-world approximation, while it may not be extinct, it's at least on the verge thereof, while la savate, although endangered, is a bit more present - la savate still has a sizeable number of practicioners in Europe, along with scattered pockets elsewhere, whereas bartitsu is pretty much at the scattered-pockets level everywhere.

A fair enough assessment.
On a peripheral note, should you ever come to Bergen, Norway, I should recommend you look up a group called Kongshirden. They're doing a decent job of reviving the combat styles of the 13th century or thereabouts - swords, shields, axes, that sort... They put up some good shows from time to time.

[Seb Wiers]

So... the point of this is as such: who has games with wiseasses and who doesn't?  And for those of us whose groups are a little more serious, does it affect the feel of the world tremendously?

In our game, I don't think it's so much "wise ass" as "genre savvy".  For example, when its time for my "true kung fu" character (who can call up various abilities as martial arts styles, via a special implementation of Mutable Power) to make a fists roll, I try to always call out some cinematic / anime style kung fu manuever name.  Last night I jumped on some red court vamp, wrapped my legs around his arms, and started pounding his head; that was "Monkey Eating Watermelon" (I was using Monkey Style, which given the setups I took, seems the most powerful style I have).  When he tried to hit me with a free arm, I blocked with "ducks around tree defense".  Eventually he got thrown flat (by the magicians spell, aimed to place an aspect) and I pulled out a vial of holy water to use as like brass knuckles- landing the "Tears of Father Damion Falcon Punch" for a whopping net 9 stress.  (I figure if my character is made mostly to fight, I'd damn well better put on a good show when doing so.)
Of course, there's always the obligatory "I really don't want to be doing this" type statements - made as you are obviously fully intending to do whatever it is will bring trouble (and heroism, and fate points) on your head.

(Note- this Martial Artist is the same one Dian's Victorian scholar was talking to.  So yeah, hopefully the mage and I can riff a bit- sadly, my inept comments about magic is not nearly as amusing.  It seems my little knowledge is enough to be dangerous, but not quite enough to be funny.)

[Shecky]

A fair enough assessment.
On a peripheral note, should you ever come to Bergen, Norway, I should recommend you look up a group called Kongshirden. They're doing a decent job of reviving the combat styles of the 13th century or thereabouts - swords, shields, axes, that sort... They put up some good shows from time to time.

Ooh, neat. Anything on YouTube or something?

[Warpmind]

Ooh, neat. Anything on YouTube or something?

Sure is. Just search for "kongshirden" - they'll be right there at the top.
Mind, it IS YouTube quality...

[Ophidimancer]

So one of my players had a character who was drunk from spiked punch.  Her Master woke her up bright and early in the morning in a hearty German speaking voice (shout) and said, "It's time for you to learn some sonomancy!" and accompanied it with a magically enhanced BOOM of his staff on the floor.

My players of course all heard SODOmancy and various anal sex jokes pervaded the game for the rest of the night.

That's about the level of witticism that my group gets up to. XD

[Warpmind]

So one of my players had a character who was drunk from spiked punch.  Her Master woke her up bright and early in the morning in a hearty German speaking voice (shout) and said, "It's time for you to learn some sonomancy!" and accompanied it with a magically enhanced BOOM of his staff on the floor.

My players of course all heard SODOmancy and various anal sex jokes pervaded the game for the rest of the night.

That's about the level of witticism that my group gets up to. XD

Poor player... Butt of everyone's jokes like that.

[Shecky]

Poor player... Butt of everyone's jokes like that.

Don't worry for the player. The laughers will eventually get what's coming to them in the end.