A question about Concessions...

[jybil178]

Basically, as important as the book makes them out to be, they aren't really gone over with very much detail... Basically, while I understand them I guess, I'm just not entirely sure what all comes about after... I mean, you agree to a concession with your opponent... Does that always mean you get "taken out" just not die yet?  I mean, what prevents them from accepting the concession, letting you drop down, then them coming over and just finishing the job?   Thats what I really don't get... I mean, maybe a couple of examples of how people have ran through concessions would be very helpful, but really... Everyone in the group gets taken out, some by concession, others not, there really isn't anyone there to drag you to safety or anything, so what happens next? >.<  They just .. i understand them, somewhat mechanically, I just don't understand much of the logic behind them... sorry for just rambling on.. I just wish There was more writing about them, not just half a page, and no examples >.<

[Sanctaphrax]

A concession is a narrative device. It is not the same as being knocked unconcious.

Here's how it works: The person offering the concession narrates the result of the conflict. The other participants say whether they accept those events as a fair conclusion. If the events are accepted, things go as narrated.

Example: Frederick the sorcerer is fighting against some ghouls, and things aren't going well. His summoned demon is dead and he has no mental stress left, but he's still facing two ghouls. By taking consequences to fuel his spellcasting, he might be able to win, but he doesn't want to do that. He also doesn't want to get killed and eaten.

So he concedes. He says that he loses the fight and barely gets away with his life.

But the GM thinks that that's lame, and presents no real disadvantage. So Frederick amends his story to say that he takes a moderate consequence of CONCUSSED as he escapes. The GM decides that that's good enough and accepts the concession.

So that's what happens.

[devonapple]

Concession is not an opportunity for the GM to kill the party. It is a narrative agreement - an agreement about how your mutual story will proceed - that allows you to "cash out" before actually being "taken out" in the way the enemy prefers. This means you and the GM negotiate a way for your character to lose, but in a way that keeps the story moving. Your GM should warn you when death is on the line, so even if you are "taken out," it shouldn't automatically mean death, and if it does, it should be clear between the GM and the players that this game is for keeps.

If you're in a fight and you keep struggling and rolling dice until you are "taken out," then yes, your character could be at the mercy of the enemy and get killed.

But with Concession, you can say "I'm not sure my character dying here is that entertaining for the story:
Maybe this enemy wants to hold me for ransom, giving my team the opportunity to track him back to his lair?
Maybe he wants to kidnap me for some sacrifice, which gets me into his inner sanctum?
Maybe he leaves me for dead, and I get a Severe Consequence?
Maybe I am rescued at the last minute by the Summer Knight, and I am unwounded, but now have the consequence "Indebted to the Fae?"

And you negotiate.

There is an example on YS 219 - an Intimidation conflict. It is not italicized, but it is there:

"Let’s consider an Intimidation conflict for a second. Your character came into this bar to rescue a friend who’s being held in the back room. Not wanting to just bust heads, your character goes in, gets a drink, and starts asking around. This leads to an Intimidation conflict with a thug there, which your  character handily loses and gets taken out. You’ve taken a moderate consequence of Shaken Resolve during the conflict. The GM, controlling the thug, suggests that your character leaves the bar because he’s afraid of getting into a fight with the thug and his friends.

This doesn’t have to mean that your character runs screaming from the bar or anything like that. People often play off their emotional responses as being less significant than they really are. It’s not out of scope to take the GM’s suggestion and reply with, “Okay, well…if I leave the bar, I’m not giving them the satisfaction of knowing that my character is that scared. I’ll keep eye contact with the thug and simply reply, ‘Don’t get comfortable and think that this is
over. It’s not. Not by a long shot.’ I’ll throw some cash on the bar and back out slowly.”

See? Your character didn’t turn into a screaming ninny, but still fulfilled the dictates of the conflict result. So, now what? Is your friend totally screwed?

Absolutely not. It just means your character is worried about getting into a fight with all those people, so the frontal approach is out of the question. That doesn’t mean your character can’t suddenly change tactics and try to sneak in the back of the bar to do the rescuing."

So there are a variety of options for both "taken out" and "concession," and it's up to the players and GM to figure out what is going to work for the story.

[jybil178]

I think I see the depth of what it can do a little bit more... Just to me, I guess, it seems weird... And while I can see more of the shape of it, I still don't understand it as well as I'd like... >.<

[devonapple]

Not only that, but if you happen to take any Consequences during the conflict, you get a Fate Point for each one when you Concede. Sort of a "strength through adversity" deal.

[Sanctaphrax]

The play-by-post game I GM, Enduring The Apocalypse, had a couple of enemies concede in a social conflict. Check the Play-By-Post forum if you want to see. Maybe it'll help.

[arete]

Not only that, but if you happen to take any Consequences during the conflict, you get a Fate Point for each one when you Concede. Sort of a "strength through adversity" deal.

For people who want to look this up it is on pg 206ys.  Thanks for posting this.

[bitterpill]

Would Jumping out of building on the second floor count as a concession or an escape as you could not get back in the fight.

[Tallyrand]

Would Jumping out of building on the second floor count as a concession or an escape as you could not get back in the fight.

It depends entirely on the situation, specifically if by jumping out the window your character sacrifices something important to the story (like he doesn't grab the magical widget or he doesn't finish off the big bad who was at his feet) then yes, if it's what you wanted to do anyway then probably not.

One important thing to remember that really helped me with concessions and fate in general is to remember that Fate has a lot of mechanics that involve the players playing the game and not the characters.  When I throw a fate chip to make something happen, it's not Sarah St. Claire or Richard Parker doing something or even wanting something to happen, it's me.  Concessions aren't between the character and his adversary, they're between the player and the GM, and that's what prevents the character from going back on the 'deal' because he isn't even aware of it.

[noclue]

Would Jumping out of building on the second floor count as a concession or an escape as you could not get back in the fight.

Did you roll athletics to jump out the building? If so, you're not conceding. I get to roll to try to stop you. If you haven't conceded, I can chase you too.

[JustinS]

Would Jumping out of building on the second floor count as a concession or an escape as you could not get back in the fight.

That is something you can offer as a concession. The person controlling the other side might accept, and you are out of the conflict. They might make a counter offer of, 'Ok, but only if you get a sprain from the landing', they might say no. They could even suggest something else. What was the conflict about? How close are things going?

[bitterpill]

The conflict was over the Maguffin (Component of the key to a big bad and his army) were getting trounced in the Building trying to fight several Kemmlerite Necromancers I was a character with Supernatural Recovery, Speed and Inhuman Strength) I only had an extreme concequence left and realised we were going to lose so, I discarded the plot item picked up two of the party and jumped out a window. The GM didn't have them follow me as I left the Maguffin and two of my party behind (the 2 useless pure mortals) so I suppose this would definatly count as a concession. Though I only did it because I though it would count as scene change and get rid of my minor and moderate concequence.

[toturi]

The conflict was over the Maguffin (Component of the key to a big bad and his army) were getting trounced in the Building trying to fight several Kemmlerite Necromancers I was a character with Supernatural Recovery, Speed and Inhuman Strength) I was one severe concequence and realised we were going to lose so, I discarded the plot item picked up two of the party and jumped out a window. The GM didn't have them follow me as I left the Maguffin and two of my party behind (the 2 useless pure mortals) so I suppose this would definatly count as a concession. Though I only did it because I though it would count as scene change and get rid of my minor and moderate concequence.

From this point of view, it is certainly a rational move to make.

You know if you were to write down what happened, I bet it would sound quite like what happens to Harry. Player thinks something should to happen, GM thinks otherwise, character is so-screwed.

[infusco]

Think of a concession as a surrender.

You realize you're not going to win this one, continuing to fight will likely result in you finding yourself badly injured or killed, and you try and offer terms that, while definitely at a disadvantage for you, will still end up with you in better shape than if you were Taken Out. It can roleplayed as an actual surrender to an opponent, or simply discussed with the GM who ends the conflict with a quick narrative.

[jybil178]

M'kay... I think I might have a little bit of an easier time with them now, hehe... I just also see them hard to be used effectively in a group setting.  A one on one setting IE a player vs GM and all that entails, could have an easier time with a concession... But what happens when you are in a group?  I guess you could just do a Group concession that everyone agrees on, but that'd get to the point where no one may agree...  Could a Concession also take an even greater form, with GM being god of his story and all, or does it normally have to be specific between the players and their opponent?  I mean, could the players want to offer concession, their goal was to try to both take out, and recover a stolen artifact from baddy, but out of nowhere, everyone can hear sirens in the distance.  Now would be the only time the players could pick up and leave without great consequences.  Is that a decent idea of what could be possible?

My second question, is about gaining fate points through concession, or being taken out.  I believe the wording was that for every consequence you'd taken in the previous encounter, you gain a fate point.  Is there a limit to this?  I only ask, cause I could imagine someone being a consequence whore, with a max number of consequences as the book states...

1 mild, 1 moderate, 1 severe natural
2 extra mild (physical: endurance5, no pain no gain)
1 extra mild (mental: conviction5)

More potentially, if you allowed a similar version of no pain, no gain for both mental and social, and the player somehow ALSO took social consequence in the previous encounter... Now you got a guy who lost a fight, and rather then get the normal maybe 2 or so fate points, he'll at least have that doubled to 4 or 5, maybe more, and they'll most likely be taken care of with a little bit of rest, with the majority of the consequences taken being mild...