Thaumatergy at the speed of evocation

[BumblingBear]

Soooo....

I'm trying to figure out how sponsored thaumatergy is actually all that great.

Specific. Examples.

The biggest problem I can see is that a lot of really good thaumatergy spells require quite a few shifts in order to accomplish.

So sure, Ancient Mai would be hell on wheels with this ability, but my little ol' character with 4-6 shifts of available magic without taking more mental stress (for now) doesn't seem to be able to accomplish much other than:

1. Creating a quick and dirty circle or ward
2. Replacing a really bad skill with a 4 to 6 shift skill for one roll
3. Creating an aspect that is a bit more sticky than simple evocation

If I've missed something here, please enlighten me.  Also, please include the actual mechanics of the spell since I'm still wrapping my head around it.

Gracias

[bitterpill]

I wonder if you can do stuff like sacrafise concequences to power up thamautergy at evocation speed that might deal with the power shortage and would be quite nice with regeneration.

[Sanctaphrax]

Thaumaturgy can do a couple of things that evocation can't.

For one, it can target opponents who aren't immediately present. So a character with thaumaturgy at the speed of evocation can continue throwing spells at a guy who's hiding behind a zone border, although he'll have to forgo his spells' weapon ratings.

For another, it can create effects that simply aren't possible with evocation. For example, you can conjure weapons and actually use them. Guns will require a special sponsor ability, though.

It also might have a far longer duration. But I'm away from my books right now, so I can't be sure.

[sinker]

Another thing it can do is healing. I wrote up a healing spell for my Angelic Knight based pretty directly on the Reiki healing spell. Of course the character was all about taking physical consequences (as backlash) to power her spells so it was a bit on the high power side.

Lay On Hands
Type: Divine Evocation, Defense(ish)
Power: 6 shifts for a mild consequence, 8 for moderate,
       14 for severe
Control: 6 (Great Discipline + 2 Divine Defense Focus)
       remaining would be backlash
Target: One ally (not self)
Opposed by: Target's Conviction if unwilling
Effect: As the Reiki healing spell, reduces a severe
       consequence to a moderate, a moderate
       consequence to a mild, or allows the target
       to ignore a mild consequence. Consequences
       still take up their original slot, however this
       also allows the target to begin recovery.

[bitterpill]

Dosen't taking physical stress to heal physical stress seem self defeating?

[bibliophile20]

Not really; stress goes away fairly quickly, but consequences do not, and the spell listed here helps reduce the healing time on those big and nasty consequences which take sessions to heal--healing which starts after you've had medical attention.

[sinker]

It was kind of the whole character concept. She was a holy warrior that takes on the stigmata at various stages as she draws on that power (I was using backlash to reflect that). She had Soulfire and a couple of holy powers but the rest of her refresh was devoted to being able to shrug off the physical damage she was dealing to herself by casting. I was eventually going to pick up inhuman recovery specifically for that damage.

[bitterpill]

Do Summon on the fly would you need to have a portable cirlce carried around with you? or becuase whatever you summoned would be weak would that not matter.

[sinker]

The whole point of the circle is to keep it from you till you can bind it. I would think that whatever you summoned would likely be bound to you already since we're talking sponsored magic. At the very least it'd be bound to your sponsor.

[Kommisar]

One the wizards in my game is a Native American Shaman with Sponsored Magic: Coyote.  We worked it up and it allows him to do Thaumaturgical Shapeshifting at evocation speed (but only into natural animals that he has had some contact with).  It also gives him access to Echos of the Beast when he transforms into that animal.  Essentially, Coyote is proving the animal form software for him.

It's been handy for him so far.  Especially when he transformed into a bear when he had two thugs grappling him.

[arete]

Summer magic allows for evoc speed minor healing, and at 6 shifts you can give 2 fragile
Aspects that buff physical actions.  It is very handy.

[Drachasor]

Summer magic allows for evoc speed minor healing, and at 6 shifts you can give 2 fragile
Aspects that buff physical actions.  It is very handy.

Indeed, and note that normally with Evocation you can only give one aspect (non-fragile with more than 3 shifts for a buff at the crappy rate of 1 exchange per extra shift).  Thaumaturgy at the speed of Evocation allows for far longer-lasting spells than normal (really, Soulfire should be taking this into account with Conjuring and such in some manner).

Another way to look at it, is think of any effect an enchanted item could do.  If it falls under your Sponsored magic, then you can do it like an evocation.  For instance, Sponsored Magic: Amun-Ra could create true Sunlight as an evocation.  Perfect for those dang vampires.

If you have a Sponsored Magic that allows some kind of divination, then you could potentially grab someone in a fight (use maneuver to represent that), and tag that for a Thaumaturgy-like Evocation spell that lets you learn something about them (like the Catch potentially for someone thing you have to personally know -- you got the whole guy right there for a thaumaturgy ritual, can't be that hard at that point!)

Winter can be used to put a guard to sleep for instance.

Also, these things say that they can be used "as an element in evocation."  That means that if you specialize in Winter Magic as evocation or make a focus, you can do cold stuff, sleep, decay, etc all as the SAME element.  That's pretty cool.  So even if a lot of that is stuff that's evocation anyhow, having it all as a singular element is pretty helpful.  At least, that's my read on that part.

[bitterpill]

What is the rule for refinement when you only have summer magic, i know that tecnically you get 4 focus item slots for sponsored magic but can you buy more and can you gain specialisations beyond the ones listed in the sponsored magic guide.

[Drachasor]

What is the rule for refinement when you only have summer magic, i know that tecnically you get 4 focus item slots for sponsored magic but can you buy more and can you gain specialisations beyond the ones listed in the sponsored magic guide.

Well, I don't think you can buy specializations...at least it wouldn't do much good given the limited scope of those abilities.  A specialization would cover everything you get from the sponsored magic.  I think you could certainly get more items.

[sinker]

Technically sponsored magic is ritual/channeling, so specializations are against the RAW. Focus items however are a perfectly adequate use of a refinement for a channeler/ritualist (and therefor a sponsored caster as well).