Breath Weapons

[bitterpill]

Breath Weapons are considered a thrown Weapon so I was wondering as the description of Strength powers says that strength affects thrown weapon and fists would breath weapons be given a bonus by inhuman, supernatural or mythic strength?

[sinker]

I'd say it depends on the breath weapon. If it's your classic breath weapon (I.E. a projection of energy, fire, cold, acid, etc) then I'd say no, but one could use (and I have used) breath weapon to represent the projection of a physical object and then it might be more appropriate.

[devonapple]

By the letter of the RAW, it would appear so. That said, from YS 156:

"Juggler: Throwing deadly items around is just par for the course for you. Catching them is, too. Even bare-handed, you may use your Weapons skill to defend against a thrown attack, allowing you to catch the item if you succeed on the defense."

So, if one can justify adding a Strength bonus to a Breath Weapon of lightning or fire, I would probably insist on being able to use the Juggler Stunt to catch it.

Edit: in truth, I *can* see larger, stronger creatures making bigger attacks (the difference between a baby dragon's Breath Weapon and a gigantic Dragon's Breath Weapon), but that extra damage can also be reflected in better skill rolls.

[Ranma1558]

Like most of Fate I'm going to say IF it makes sense to you and the story and makes it fun, then yes, strength modifies it. That being said, for most "breath weapons" I'd think a stunt would be a better choice for ways to "pump" up the power.

As for juggling such attacks, maybe if they had zel gel, asbestos gloves, or a magical shield then yea, they could pull it off (the first to are for fire obviously).

[bitterpill]

It was for my scion of an ifrit character who was either going to be throwing about sandstorms or fireballs though I suppose strengthwise sand would make a lot more sense for strength than fire.

[Kommisar]

Another situational call.  Use logic, talk to your group and go with what sounds reasonable.

I have an NPC Jotunn that I used "Breath Weapon" to model his ability to form and throw ice-spears around.  In this case, it makes sense that he would get his Strength bonus with this.  

As for the juggler stunt; I would impose a limit on that as a GM.  A limit based on size of the projectile  You're not going to catch a tree thrown at you.  As for the force/speed of the thrown object I suppose that would be tied up in the opposed rolls.  If someone with Mythic Strength threw an axe at you, you would have to beat his roll to catch it and that includes all his bonuses for that Strength (+3 mod from Might to his Weapons skill right off).  Not a trivial task.

[devonapple]

Those all sound like good options. In truth, I mentioned the Juggler stunt primarily as an illustration of the folly of making as strict an interpretation against logic using the rule cited in the OP.

[riplikash]

Personally I wouldn't use "breath weapon" to represent certain kinds of breath weapons (like energy attacks). As was said, don't get too caught up in names, focus on mechanics.

For instance, if it is an energy attack, the fact that it comes from the mouth really isn't important, map it as a more traditional energy attack and fluff it to be a breath weapon.

Similarly if you have an attack that fits the breath weapon template but comes from somewhere else...use breath weapon to map it.

[devonapple]

Similarly if you have an attack that fits the breath weapon template but comes from somewhere else...use breath weapon to map it.

It's true. The rules even suggest taking powers (like Breath Weapon) to represent innate or well-honed magical spells, like a Wizard's affinity for shapechanging.

So, yes, the Breath Weapon (like Claws) is there as a "catch-all" sort of power, and each special effect will suggest its own inherent advantages and disadvantages.

[Sanctaphrax]

I think that strength should be allowed apply to Breath Weapon even if it's something like fire. I've got three reasons.

1. Dragon breath should not be weapon 2. Same goes for anything else on a similar scale.
2. You spend 2 refresh on Breath Weapon, which should not give you something that does less than a throwing knife.
3. Players should not be penalized mechanically for flavour decisions like having fiery breath instead of needle-launching eyebrows.

That being said, I would let a player who wanted their strength not to apply to their Breath Weapon have their wish. And some NPCs might do the same, like Kalshazzak from OW.

[MijRai]

I think that strength should be allowed apply to Breath Weapon even if it's something like fire. I've got three reasons.

1. Dragon breath should not be weapon 2. Same goes for anything else on a similar scale.
2. You spend 2 refresh on Breath Weapon, which should not give you something that does less than a throwing knife.
3. Players should not be penalized mechanically for flavour decisions like having fiery breath instead of needle-launching eyebrows.

That being said, I would let a player who wanted their strength not to apply to their Breath Weapon have their wish. And some NPCs might do the same, like Kalshazzak from OW.

I'd say buy a -1 power to increase the strength of the Breath Weapon power on its own is called for when you get something like a Dragon. If it is something that strong, it can spare a few Refresh on its fire.

A Throwing Knife is Weapon 1, so Breath Weapon is better then that. Add to that the fact that it can't be taken away, it can do unique manuevers like 'On Fire' or 'Electrocuted', you have an infinite number of them, and it has range to it. It is worth -2. Claws is -1, Breath Weapon adds much more. If you want to think of it that way.

I'd say it affects it when it seems viable, say the monkeys from Blood Rites. While theirs was fire, they had a solid thing to throw for their Breath Weapon. If someone is just breathing fire, they aren't putting any real strength behind it. Hurling icicles, spikes growing out of your skin to be thrown, or even flaming poo rely on actual muscle to throw them. Does it make sense to have the person who shoots lasers out of their eyes get a bonus from Strength powers?

[devonapple]

2. You spend 2 refresh on Breath Weapon, which should not give you something that does less than a throwing knife.

... when thrown by something with supernatural Strength, of course, since knives are, by themselves, Weapon:1.

[devonapple]

I'd say buy a -1 power to increase the strength of the Breath Weapon power on its own is called for when you get something like a Dragon. If it is something that strong, it can spare a few Refresh on its fire....
Does it make sense to have the person who shoots lasers out of their eyes get a bonus from Strength powers?

Well, the sidebar on YS 162 does specify "You can’ t take any power multiple times unless it says so" but I think something like this is a gray area. Like I said, I think there is some logic behind making a bigger creature's given breath weapon do more damage than a smaller one, but that could also be a funciton of a better Weapons skill for generating additional shifts. But Strength does not always equal Size.

[MijRai]

Well, the sidebar on YS 162 does specify "You can’ t take any power multiple times unless it says so" but I think something like this is a gray area. Liek I said, I think there is some logic behind making a bigger creature's given breath weapon do more damage than a smaller one, but that could also be a funciton of a better Weapons skill for generating additional shifts. But Strength does not always equal Size.

What power am I suggesting a person take multiple times? A power can tier for multiple steps of increased power like Inhuman, Supernatural, and Mythic, although I'd lower the cost of it if it is just for Breath Weapon (or just take one upgrading power and not worry about taking more of them). More Weapons skill also helps, of course.

[Drachasor]

Strength powers should affect it, because otherwise it is pretty worthless for anything with a strength power.  Otherwise you've spent 2 refresh on a crappy pistol (shorter range) that you can hide really well (but that doesn't mean you always have access to it, bad guys can find a way to make sure you can't use it whether muzzling your mouth or whatever).  Sure, you can theoretically run out of ammo, but that almost never happens.  Overall that's garbage when a high strength character can just have a few throwing axes to lug around and they'll be weapon 2+strength bonuses (I believe a throwing axe would do more damage than a dagger).  Or they can pick up things on the scene and toss them due to their high strength (heck, isn't that hard to throw PEOPLE as weapons).  Heck, they'll pretty much get just as much mileage out of a bag of baseballs as they would a breath weapon (they can take those baseballs just about anywhere, and we could consider them weapon 0 as a base if we wanted) and that's just with INHUMAN strength.

For 2 refresh, it should scale with anything that increases weapon damage, otherwise it is a joke.  Heck, 2 refresh is pretty expensive as it is...I'm not entirely convinced it shouldn't be just 1 refresh.  (I'd say claws are similar and should be 0 refresh, except they give you an excellent weapon for the fist skill, which is pretty nice given some of the stunts available for fists).