Conjuration and Construct Creation

[devonapple]

Edit: Here is a link to the GoogleDocs PDF of the system I compiled.

I came up with this table using the size/weight charts from "Strands of FATE" as well as "Mutants & Masterminds," 2nd edition. I also used the "Mutants & Masterminds" progression table for a guideline on how to escalate the scale of duplicating objects. I extrapolated Ritual Complexity using the Conjuration suggestions on YS 274, and provided two methods for pricing the ritual:

Method 1: a more aggressive, higher-cost option for GMs who want to make the players work for these effects.
Method 2: a less granular, more lenient cost which is in closer alignment to the somewhat loose guidelines provided on YS 274.

Category	Example	Height	Weight	Method 1  Cost	Method 2  Cost
Colossal	Airplane, Large House, Battleship	64-128 ft.	250K- 2 mil. lbs	19	7
Gargantuan	Dragon, Tank, Small House	32-64 ft.	32K –250K lbs.	17	5
Huge	Elephant, Car, Small Shack	16-32 ft.	4K –32K lbs.	15	3
Large	Bear, Large Motorcycle, Table	8-16 ft.	500-4,000 lbs.	13	3
Medium (human)	Adult Human, Door, Barrel	4-8 ft.	60-500 lbs.	11	3
Small	Human Child, Chair, Small Dog	2 ft.-4 ft.	8-60 lbs.	9	3
Tiny	Handgun, Toaster, Cat	1-2 ft.	1-8 lbs.	7	1
Diminutive	Baseball	6 in.-1 ft.	0.25-1 lb.	5	1
Fine	Mice, Knife	3 in.-6 in.	0.9-0.1 lb.	3	1
Miniscule	Grasshoppers, Coins	3 in. or less	1 oz. or less	1	1
Wee	Small Gemstones, Seeds, Pebbles	--	--	3	3
Granular	Ants, Fleas, Grains of Sand	--	--	7	3
Particulate	Particles of Dust or Powder	--	--	11	5
Microscopic	Bacteria, Nanites, Viruses	--	--	15	7

For creating multiple copies of a thing:

Duplicates,     Method 1	Method 1       Cost		Duplicates,     Method 2	Method 2       Cost
2	2		2 to 9	2
5	4		10 to 49	4
10	6		50 to 249	6
25	8		250 to 999	8
50	10		1,000 to 4,999	10
100	12		5,000 to 24,999	12
250	14		25,000 to 99,999	14
500	16		100,000 to 249,999	16
1,000	18
2,500	20
5,000	22
10,000	24
25,000	26
50,000	28
100,000	30

Modifiers:
These modifiers are consistent with the guidelines on YS 274:

Simple object; 1-2 moving parts at most: +0
Believability: +X shifts to increase roll needed to notice the conjured object is fake
Animated: +2
Complex: +2 (may be taken multiple times - perhaps each level indicates another feature or Aspect)

[Sanctaphrax]

I like this, but there are a few things I'd change.

1. I think the size scale goes too high. Two human sacrifices shouldn't be enough to create a planet.
2. I think an intermediate category between Bacteria and Insects would be appropriate. +1 to +13 is pretty jarring.
3. There is no way that a bacterium, nanite, or virus weighs half a gram.
4. An extra step between one and a dozen on the quantity scale would be appropriate, I think.

PS: You've inspired me to create a similar table for wards.

[devonapple]

Excellent points all. This was a rough rough ROUGH first draft.

The DFRPG actually recommends a +2 per size increase, but there doesn't seem to be a Size index similar to the Time index. I opted to use factors of 5-10 for the larger sizes.

"1. I think the size scale goes too high. Two human sacrifices shouldn't be enough to create a planet."

Fine by me - I included it for completeness, but I'm happy cutting off players at the Battleship category.

"2. I think an intermediate category between Bacteria and Insects would be appropriate. +1 to +13 is pretty jarring."

True. I think it should get more complex as it gets microscopic, but maybe a step or two in between would be helpful.

"3. There is no way that a bacterium, nanite, or virus weighs half a gram."

Artifact of the original document - has been amended.

"4. An extra step between one and a dozen on the quantity scale would be appropriate, I think"

Done!

[HobbitGuy1420]

Maybe go up by numbers with a "mystical" significance?  1, 3, 7, 12, 40...

[devonapple]

I'm wondering if I should pull in a size/mass chart from "Mutants & Masterminds" or something like that.

[bibliophile20]

I'm wondering if I should pull in a size/mass chart from "Mutants & Masterminds" or something like that.

Not a bad idea.  It's a good chart.

[devonapple]

Not a bad idea.  It's a good chart.

I have done so (see above).

Are there any proponents for preserving the book's example of making a conjured inoperable car a Complexity 7 ritual? How would you scale the Complexity to accommodate that? DFRPG's examples seem to vaguely indicate that the range for complexity 5 is from Tiny to Huge. "Coin" is considered 1, inanimate "Frog" is listed as 3 (5 for an animated frog), and inanimate car is 7 (5 for its complexity, and +2 for its size).

Maybe the assumption is that human-size is +0 and that average complexity is 5, with negative modifiers for smaller things?
Obviously fake human = 5
Decent fake human = 7
Animated fake human = 9
Expertly crafted animated human (required Superb skill to recognize the fake) = 19

[bibliophile20]

what would the difficulty of coinage?  particularly in quantity. 

[devonapple]

what would the difficulty of coinage?  particularly in quantity.  

Well, a basic coin would be 1, plus 4-5 shifts to make it believable, then you'd look at the progression table - let's use 100 coins: +12.

So:
Basic shape: +1
Requires Superb roll to detect as counterfeit: +5
100 coins: +12
Duration: until next sunrise +0

Total complexity; 18.

I feel that using the M&M Progression chart may be a little steep.

Also, I'm wondering if the RAW are trying to say that a coin and a frog are within the same size category for conjuration, and that the frog is 1 shift for size, and 2 shifts for complexity, and possibly another 2 shifts for animation.

[devonapple]

Maybe go up by numbers with a "mystical" significance?  1, 3, 7, 12, 40...

A brilliant idea, but a quick Google Search reveals a potential snag in that plan: WHICH mystical tradition? There are many, and some of them have most of the numbers up to 40 tangled up in mystical significance.

[bibliophile20]

A brilliant idea, but a quick Google Search reveals a potential snag in that plan: WHICH mystical tradition? There are many, and some of them have most of the numbers up to 40 tangled up in mystical significance.

Stay away from gematria, then.  *thoughtful*  Although, it does have some recommendations to it, given that it's a fully detailed system for Thaumaturgy via math and linguistic manipulation... 

[Sanctaphrax]

Mind if I post the wardmaking guide here?

[devonapple]

Mind if I post the wardmaking guide here?

Sure - go for it!

[ironpoet]

First of all, I love the tables, since I've tried to work out good conjuration guidelines in the past without much progress.

I'm a little uncomfortable with the way size and duplication interact.  According to Method 1, conjuring two battleships is practically the same difficulty as conjuring one battleship.  According to Method 2, I could conjure 2 battleships or 5 small houses with the same complexity.

My gut instincts would suggest that "total mass" (ectoplasm) would be the limiting factor, regardless of how many items make up that total mass.  So maybe we don't need two separate tables?

[devonapple]

I'm a little uncomfortable with the way size and duplication interact.  According to Method 1, conjuring two battleships is practically the same difficulty as conjuring one battleship.  According to Method 2, I could conjure 2 battleships or 5 small houses with the same complexity.

My gut instincts would suggest that "total mass" (ectoplasm) would be the limiting factor, regardless of how many items make up that total mass.  So maybe we don't need two separate tables?

That is certainly an option!

The rules, however, indicate that duplication adds +2 Complexity, or more depending on how many duplicates you are making. It's pretty vague, unfortunately, and the example (covering a city park in fake, hopping frogs) is touted as at least a Complexity 11 effect: 5 for the frogs, and 3 or more levels of duplication at +2 Complexity each. It alludes to orders of magnitude being important, but gives no clear guides. Nothing in the rules supports working from the combined mass.