Unsolved Mysteries Version II

[OZ]

even in the peom, when stan fell from heaven, the dragon in the darkness ( tehob) was there to meet him.
 
 
 

I know it was a typo but when I first read this I was wondering, Stan who?

To which poem do you refer? Paradise Lost?

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

How exactly could did Satan get the Fallen in the coins? One would assume that he wasn't powerful enough to get all 30 Fallen in the coins, especially given that Anduriel was his top general. Did Satan get God in on it? Or did Satan somehow trick them into the coins.
I realize that the popular consensus was that Satan just kinda did it, but I highly doubt he had the power to mystically confine and limit 30 of his peers just like that.

We don't really have a handle on how much stronger archangels are than angels, it's not beyond plausibility to my mind that the thirty Denarians, strongest of their fallen angel peers though they be, are nonetheless, as a combined force, something DV Lucifer the fallen archangel can hold in the palm of one hand.

Given the timing, I can see it having something to do with the Harrowing of hell, either.

[sjsharks]

We don't really have a handle on how much stronger archangels are than angels, it's not beyond plausibility to my mind that the thirty Denarians, strongest of their fallen angel peers though they be, are nonetheless, as a combined force, something DV Lucifer the fallen archangel can hold in the palm of one hand.

Given the timing, I can see it having something to do with the Harrowing of hell, either.

Jim has already said that they were bound into their coins because the Devil (Satan/Lucifer/whoever) was worried that they would try to take over, which means that their combined power of all 30 is at least enough to take him down.

[Thork]

Jim has already said that they were bound into their coins because the Devil (Satan/Lucifer/whoever) was worried that they would try to take over, which means that their combined power of all 30 is at least enough to take him down.

Maybe not enough to take him down, but at least enough to cause him real trouble.

[Ms Duck]

I know it was a typo but when I first read this I was wondering, Stan who?

To which poem do you refer? Paradise Lost?

Satan; and yes, paradise lost.

prior to the medieval period Satan was not considered to be the devil; Satan iteslf means 'accuser' ; he was god's district attorney..when your soul died, satan would speak your sins upon judgement day and  the messiah would act as your defense counsel. The whole satan= the devil thing got started as a mistranslation in revelations.

[OZ]

Not to split hairs but it's revelation not revelations. The whole Lucifer= Satan=the devil is subject to a lot of debate but there is no definitive historical answer. Most Christians feel one way, the Jews another, if you feel that other traditions are speaking of the same being or beings you can come up with still more ideas. I don't (and won't after this post) want to wander into touchy topics but like most things dealing with religion, there are many ideas. While there may be some that agree with you, the idea that all three names referred to the same being was definitely around before medeval times.

[Ms Duck]

it's written for non scholars, but a very good history on Satan is at:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Satan

and JIm, being an old school DnD nut ( he has seven vampires, five types of werewolf, etc..)

this is closer to what I think we will meet:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DemonLordsAndArchDevils

[OZ]

it's written for non scholars, but a very good history on Satan is at:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Satan

I only skimmed this but I didn't see anything that I disagree with. Different people, different faiths, different times = different views. There has also been some heavy borrowing of course. The horned, hooved version of the devil, for instance, came straight from Pan. ( Of course if we stuck with the hooved, horned version in the Dresdenverse, he might be the oldest of the Gruffs even stronger than the magician that Harry met. )  I would not be surprised if you were right on with your guess as to what we will find in the DV.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Jim has already said that they were bound into their coins because the Devil (Satan/Lucifer/whoever) was worried that they would try to take over, which means that their combined power of all 30 is at least enough to take him down.

Check the wording on the quote; I think you'll find it doesn't actually say that,  just that they were the strongest among their peers and caused the Morningstar the most trouble; which does not unambiguously separate "potential coup d'etat" from "a persistent set of irritating mosquitoes" as relative power levels go.

[The Fish]

Sorry, havn't had time time to read all 17 pages, read most though, so i apologize if someone has already said this.

Will Harry giving Bob a name be significant?
Has Elaine fulfilled ALL of her obligations to Summer?
how long has the black council been around?
Will other vampire court power increase with the demise of the RC, regardless of the rest of the power vacuum?
Will Ivy go crazy? (i think it was mentioned as a possibility near the end of Small Favor)
How old is Bob (we know he's over 600), and are any of his former masters (before kemmler) significant?
Did Kumori survive as well as Cowl?

Also, on the Red vamps taking over from the mayan gods, I think that when the conquistadores first came to the new world, some native peoples thought they looked like their gods and worshipped them, making it easier for the spaniards to take over( at first) don't quote me on that, though.

[The Fish]

I found something interesting.
on p. 255 in the Grave Peril paperback, it mentions that Thomas was burned by lea when she gave him a kiss. This implies that Lea is in love with someone, so my question is, Who is Lea in love with and is it significant?

oh, and it was said a few pages before that Lea kissed Harry, but this was proven to be fairy glamour.

[Ms Duck]

annother possibilty with lea is her lips are just that dang cold

or that she was marking him for soem reason

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

annother possibilty with lea is her lips are just that dang cold

Yep.  Note that Maeve's mouth freezes lemonade in PG; the kiss in GP could be freezer-burn plain and simple.

[parthagenon]

I'll add the Elaine question, and append the Kumori one to "(How) did Cowl survive?".  For Bob, though, the first question was pretty much answered by his responding to his name in DB, and the second is probably unimportant.  The questions about Ivy and especially the power vacuum are too vague, I think- more in the realm of speculation than solid questions.

As for Lea, that's already up there.  Although, that's a good observation about the cold- I haven't reread GP for quite a while, so does anyone have the specific quote, or remember if there was any ambiguity between Thomas being actually burned, or Thomas being frostbitten?

[sjsharks]

Oooohhh it was definitely a burn

I glanced over at him. There was a mark on his neck, black and angry red, like a brand, in the shape of lovely feminine lips. I would have thought it lipstick, but i sensed a faint odor of burnt meat in the air.