Killing in the Game

[Richard_Chilton]

Here's a question about style.

In the Dresden books, humans rarely die at the hands of the good guys.  By humans I mean sorcerers and minor talents as well as random people.  When the bad guy is a normal mortal he either walks, has problems with the law, or has a talk with Marcone.  That, or it's the White Council killing someone who cannot be saved.  At various times Dresden has problems brought on by him being associated with so many people who die or disappear.

In the Dresden game, there doesn't have to be much in the way of killing - taking someone out can easily be non-lethal, and I'm curious about the mortality levels of people's games.  Do PCs keep the violence to a minimum or do they treat mortal threats like they are orcs?

Richard

[sinker]

Seems like that might be on a character to character basis really. I was in a game a while back where most of us were trying to limit the mortal death however the supernatural berserker had a little less restraint...

[finnmckool]

My people paly in a small city so they can't let the mortal body count get noticeable.

[mostlyawake]

My players are very death happy, but they excel at covering it up and placing blame.  One of the PCs threw two guys out of a high rise last game, but the bad guy veiled the bodies to look like the PCs... so that's going to be a fun  police investigation.

[toturi]

Depends on certain factors, sometimes my PCs do not kill their enemies but leave them weakened and vulnerable. To draw out the second stringers to show themselves, to challenge for those positions. And let their enemies' enemies do the killing for them or better yet, wipe each other out. Every enemy is constantly evaluated whether it is better to kill or let live.

Hit them with Consequence: Extremely weakened/Utterly de-powered/No more Denarius or some such like what

(click to show/hide)

Maggie did Lord Raith

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[bibliophile20]

Mostly, my PCs have been pretty good about the whole killing thing.  However, there was that one scenario with the traveling carnival and the warlock cabal running it...  That one got pretty messy, not the least because of the civvies in the area; the PCs were damn lucky, actually, that the subsequent fire and flooding managed to destroy most of the forensic evidence that would have incriminated them.  Between the bad guys, the good guys, and the demon hit squad, there were close to 50 fatalities that session.

[ballplayer72]

Here's a question about style.

In the Dresden books, humans rarely die at the hands of the good guys.  By humans I mean sorcerers and minor talents as well as random people.  When the bad guy is a normal mortal he either walks, has problems with the law, or has a talk with Marcone.  That, or it's the White Council killing someone who cannot be saved.  At various times Dresden has problems brought on by him being associated with so many people who die or disappear.

In the Dresden game, there doesn't have to be much in the way of killing - taking someone out can easily be non-lethal, and I'm curious about the mortality levels of people's games.  Do PCs keep the violence to a minimum or do they treat mortal threats like they are orcs?

Richard

Can't speak for DF games but every PC i've ever had when i was DMing ANYTHING, acted like The Inquisition from warhammer 40k.  Moral threat?  shoot first and then fail to ask questions.  Threat threat?  shoot first.  Fluffy bunnies?  shoot first, it could be the bunny from the holy grail.   etc.       

[devonapple]

My players have had their hack-and-slash moments in other games, but the First Law has been successfully discouraging outright murder of mortals in the all-Apprentice game we are playing now.

[fantazero]

My players have had their hack-and-slash moments in other games, but the First Law has been successfully discouraging outright murder of mortals in the all-Apprentice game we are playing now.

First law is not murder with MAGIC, said nothing about stabbing, blunt force, shooting, burning ect

[bibliophile20]

First law is not murder with MAGIC, said nothing about stabbing, blunt force, shooting, burning ect

Or grenades.  Don't forget the grenades. 

[Oriande]

I think that both character concept and player maturity play a role in how a group responds to this question.
With my players it is not a problem, especially since the PCs include a doctor [Really helpful if you dont want to explain to local authorities about a gun shot wound recieved in were-cougar form] who takes her Hippocratic oath very seroiusly.
If you are concerned about players going on a killing spree every session you could try talking  to them about it...After all a few white court thralls are no challenge if you meet them with gun-fire and grenades, but can be an interesting encounter when you try to deal with them without causing lasting harm, in a public place, and while avoiding any damage to random bystanders etc.
Another good way to discourage excessive violence in any game setting is to have consistant and plausable consequences.  Sure, a wizard will be able to escape arrest, but that will also leave him a fugative and likely lead to trouble with the White Council as well. 

[newtinmpls]

"Do PCs keep the violence to a minimum or do they treat mortal threats like they are orcs?"

A question like this comes from a "orcs as items" mentality. My PC's are transplants from the HARN game system, which has so much detail that you simply cann't get away with the sort of killing too many "o level monsters" the way D&D allowed.

Anyone dies in my campaign, any campaign, there are consequences. Family may come after the killers, or maybe it was done because the PC's work for the guarde and this was an outlaw. I just think that there shouldn't ever be anyone that it's somehow "okay" to kill.

All that being said, I also love the "obscure death rule" which says that if the baddie fell off a cliff or for some other reason the PC's did not get to witness the death "for sure" - well, he, she or they are probably not really dead. But he/she/they now intend to make the PC's which they were.

Dian

[tallgrrl]

OK, I know I'm sticking my nose in since I'm not playing, but I thought all the various sides in the DV were against calling attention to themselves by mortal authorities, so wouldn't everyone avoid public displays of lethality?  The White/Red/Black courts cleaned up their messes extremely well, and NN constructs turn to jelly and evaporate... actual Fey people leave a corpse, and humans of course do too, but it seems that at least one of the reasons there are so few bystander fatalities (innocent or otherwise) in the books is that people not directly involved seem get extremely uneasy and leave the area rather than get mowed down in a hail of bullets (or flame, or toads), and both sides pick their times and battles very well.  Even the baddies try to establish a clear playing field...  anyway, sorry to poke my nose in but the subject really piqued my interest. 

[Richard_Chilton]

"Do PCs keep the violence to a minimum or do they treat mortal threats like they are orcs?"

A question like this comes from a "orcs as items" mentality.

That's basically what I was asking - do the PC treat others in the game as objects to be disposed of on whim? Does their level of lethal violence go far beyond what is shown in the books? Are PCs attempting to solve issues creatively or are they just in "kill the bad guy" mode.

Since "orc" is usually gamer shorthand for "see it, kill it, loot it, get praised for killing it" type things I used that term to simplify the question.

Speaking of Harn, how is the game making out since Robin Crossby's all too soon death? He, Gygax, and Wujcik all going that year made 2008 a very sad one for the RP role.

Richard

[deathwombat]

We are working on not treating all opponents simply as targets to be killed.
Some players are having more trouble than others with the  see foe  kill it approach than others.
Strangely those are the folks that have not read any Dresden books.
Hmmmmm