White Court Spellcasters

[Nyarlathotep5150]

     I thought I'd throw this hypothetical out there for a group consensus.
     I don't think we've yet seen an example of a WCV with spellcasting ability (aside from one using a common ritual). Now the question isn't whether or not WCV's can learn magic (since they are the most human of all vampires, and we've already seen examples of wizard level magic in both the other courts, I don't see any reason to assume the Whites couldn't develop it as well).
     But, Considering that the White Court are "Living Vampires" and that magic is referred to, multiple times as being a byproduct of life (as well as being created by life and powered by life energy), and the white court need to feed directly off that same life energy. Should it be a requirement that any WCV who takes spellcasting powers, tie them to feeding dependency (except of course sponsored magic, which has an implied alternate powersource)?   

[Quazar]

That's a fascinating question.  The only whampire we know who has performed magic in the DF would of course be Papa Raith, and that was sponsored magic so that doesn't really help us here.  Hmmm...

The way I would run it would be that their magic comes from the human part of them, so it's independent of the demon and thus the demon's Feeding Dependency.  Note that Bianca's magic is independent of her Feeding Dependency and there is even less humanity left in the Red Court.

[Hoyled]

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Thomas can perform minor spells, he does this in his pov short story

[Nyarlathotep5150]

   But, the way the White Court feeding is described in the book, is that they mix their life force with the victim, transform some of the victims lifeforce into their own, then draw it back into themselves. Magic uses the humans lifeforce, so I'm thinking its probably the same pool of lifeforce, and the more you spend on magic, the less there is to feed the demon.
   Biancas magic would be different, since Undead magic comes from a different powersource, and the reds and blacks feed off blood, not life energy.

[Nyarlathotep5150]

(click to show/hide)

Thomas can perform minor spells, he does this in his pov short story

   I haven't read PoV yet. Only about 60 pages into Side Jobs (Blast my need to reread the whole series with the short stories in order!), so I can't comment on that yet.

[Blackblade]

Maybe WCV casters could choose to take a point of hunger stress instead of mental stress for evocations.  Or at least use hunger stress to get extra shifts/mitigate backlash.

There is also another question: would WCV casters have to take Lawbreakers?

[Nyarlathotep5150]

There is also another question: would WCV casters have to take Lawbreakers?

  That would depend on the GM. Technically, the Laws only apply to mortal casters, using magic on fellow mortals. The White Court are a separate nation under the accords, so the Council has no authority over them. However, an argument could be made that the soul tarnishing effect (the purpose of the Lawbreaker power), might still apply.

[Drashna]

I think the reason there isn't a WCV caster so far, is because of the laws and the effects of them.  It's a fine line.

Personally, I'd say the laws still apply.  They are there because of the corrupting effect it has on the caster. Slippery slope of power, as Jim continually brings up.   And the more you believe that those actions are okay, the better you get at them.   So, definitely would still have to grab lawbreaker.

And I think linking the casting to feeding dependency (and maybe human guise) is a good idea. Just imagine a caster with evocation and 3x refinement, that's a 6 refresh worth of ability.  And hopefully that's all you used in the scene. Else with a couple more powers, that's 8 or more.  That's one heck of a discipline check against hunger.   Good think casters need/want high discipline.

[sinker]

There is also another question: would WCV casters have to take Lawbreakers?

This is a question I've been thinking about recently. Seems to me a lot of the laws are about you becoming the kind of person who would kill (or warp another in body or mind, etc), who believes themselves justified in doing so. If you're already a predator who kills (or has killed) daily to survive does that really apply?

[MyNinjaH8sU]

In my opinion, yes, because it is magic, the force of life and essence of reality that you are perverting, not just your own morale code. There is a cosmological difference.

[Vryce]

I don’t see a reason why a WCV could not cast magic, i would think it would drain the soul food out of them quickly as if that was the life force they used to cast.  As other has said above WCV already use magic, he is just to lazy to really delve in to it.

As for Law Breaker, i would say no.  WCV are not human and not under the White Counsel.  If i remember right Dresden talks about how the Accords give mortal magic to the White Counsel everyone else gets to abide by the rules of their organizations.

Now would a WCV with high magic ability be alive long?  would another WCV take them out due to a perceived threat?  or use others to take out this Possible threat.  That is all just good story to bring to your game.

[sinker]

In my opinion, yes, because it is magic, the force of life and essence of reality that you are perverting, not just your own morale code. There is a cosmological difference.

But you aren't perverting all of magic. Your killing someone does not taint someone else's life force. It's your personal life force, and if you're already in a place where you put somebody else's life that far down on your list of things of value then how do you change when you kill someone with magic?

[sinker]

Maybe WCV casters could choose to take a point of hunger stress instead of mental stress for evocations.  Or at least use hunger stress to get extra shifts/mitigate backlash.

Of note I think I like this the best, allowing the whampire to draw on his demonic essence if he so desires, but not making it completely intertwined.

[Nyarlathotep5150]

   See. I think the opposite. Going with this option basically gives all WCV's that learn magic a free power, above and beyond what they payed for.
   Allowing Hunger Stress to stand in for mental stress just doubles the number of spells they can sling per scene.

 

In my opinion, yes, because it is magic, the force of life and essence of reality that you are perverting, not just your own moral code. There is a cosmological difference.

    This isn't really true. Harry's magic comes from life, but that is mostly because he believes it does. He readily admits that magic can and does come from other sources (In Dead Beat he says that Vampire magic comes from a darker place). The white Court Demon is one of these alternate sources.
     Also, the laws of magic are meant to show the psychological effect of a human treating his fellow humans in such a way. Monsters aren't human and therefore don't have the same type of psychology (and even if they did it would protect their own species, not us), so the laws of magic no longer apply.

[Vryce]

I dont like the mental stress vs Hunger either.  Seems a little OP.  All i was saying is that it would more of a aspect then anything, aka : white court vamp wizard, using souls to power magic.