Author Topic: Catch Ideas  (Read 11683 times)

Offline Drashna

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Re: Catch Ideas
« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2010, 06:18:38 AM »
Best example for the Cold Iron thing is the Goblins on OW45:[qoute]Powers
Echoes of the Beast [–1] (Hunting Hound)
Glamours [–2]
Inhuman Strength [–2]
Inhuman Toughness [–2]
Inhuman Recovery [–2]
The Catch [+3] is cold iron and the like
Pack Instincts [-1][/quote]
[qoute='piotr1600']Sure true love will conquer all... You sponsored an instant vision of a tentacled Cthuluoid monstrosity following Elaine around, meeping piteously and making puppy dog eyes at her while she sighs loudly and gently kisses those tentacles...[/qoute]

Offline devonapple

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Re: Catch Ideas
« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2010, 06:40:55 PM »
What do folks think about a Catch which requires someone to have conjured something using Thaumaturgy?

One example would be a Catch that can only be satisfied by conjuring and using weapons made of "false ivory" (perhaps requiring a minimum Ritual Complexity to satisfy the Catch in question).

Another example would be a powerful and deadly creature with a Catch (presumably Unknowable without an Assessment or a Divination Ritual to find out lore about that particular monster) which requires the players to research, recover and successfully execute a specific and highly Complex ritual to conjure the one weapon/substance which can satisfy the Catch. The recovery and execution of the ritual could itself span several sessions, culminating in a confrontation between the somewhat-less-nightmarish monster and the better-prepared PCs.

Obviously, dispelling would be a possible risk for any conjured Catch substance, but that could make the confrontation more challenging. It'd probably be poor manners to specify that a monster's Catch requires a conjured substance, and then give the monster the means to Counterspell it. It could perhaps motivate the PCs to take out any allied spellcasters quickly and decisively.
"Like a voice, like a crack, like a whispering shriek
That echoes on like it’s carpet-bombing feverish white jungles of thought
That I’m positive are not even mine"

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Offline bibliophile20

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Re: Catch Ideas
« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2010, 06:52:46 PM »
False ivory?  tagua nut.  You need to think more exotically.  If you want something complex enough to require an extended duration thaumaturgical ritual, go with math.

"The beast's invulnerability can only be stripped away by containing that invulnerability.  But that invulnerability will seek to return to its owner, thus it must be tricked.  It can only be contained by an impossibility--a bottle that has no stopper, no lip, and only one side.  The mathematicians have discovered it; they call it a Klein bottle.  And to destroy this monster, you must conjure that which is impossible, a shape that cannot truly exist."
Tips for the Evil Henchman:
#12. If the seemingly helpless person you have just cornered is confident and unafraid despite being outnumbered and surrounded, you have encountered a Hero in disguise. Run while you still can.

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Offline devonapple

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Re: Catch Ideas
« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2010, 06:59:43 PM »
False ivory?  tagua nut.  You need to think more exotically.  If you want something complex enough to require an extended duration thaumaturgical ritual, go with math.

By my example I actually meant fake, conjured elephant horn-type ivory. I had no idea that the tagua nut (plant ivory) existed until your informative example! A GM could even specify conjured tagua nut, I suppose.

But your mathematical suggestion is wonderful! How much Complexity would you assign that?
"Like a voice, like a crack, like a whispering shriek
That echoes on like it’s carpet-bombing feverish white jungles of thought
That I’m positive are not even mine"

Blackout, The Darkest of the Hillside Thickets

Offline bibliophile20

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Re: Catch Ideas
« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2010, 07:08:38 PM »
Ah.  *blush*  I keep forgetting that not everyone has eccentric craftsmen for fathers and friends.  Apologies for my tone.  But if you specify tagua nut, do it in a round-a-bout fashion.  Don't say "tagua nut," say "the carved tusk of a plant" or something else suitably vague. 

As for the complexity of conjuring an actual physical Klein bottle?   :o  Alot.  The only reason they could get away with it is because, literally, a wizard did it.  Even so, forcing an actual Klein bottle to exist in 3-D space?  Probably 15-20 at a minimum, depending on how sadistic the GM is feeling. 
Tips for the Evil Henchman:
#12. If the seemingly helpless person you have just cornered is confident and unafraid despite being outnumbered and surrounded, you have encountered a Hero in disguise. Run while you still can.

DFRPG Resources Wiki

Offline devonapple

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Re: Catch Ideas
« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2010, 07:28:47 PM »
Ah.  *blush*  I keep forgetting that not everyone has eccentric craftsmen for fathers and friends.  Apologies for my tone.  But if you specify tagua nut, do it in a round-a-bout fashion.  Don't say "tagua nut," say "the carved tusk of a plant" or something else suitably vague. 

You don't have to worry. I'll be as obtuse as I can be if that Catch ever comes up: make it a riddle, perhaps. Thanks for the suggestion!

As for the complexity of conjuring an actual physical Klein bottle?   :o  Alot.  The only reason they could get away with it is because, literally, a wizard did it.  Even so, forcing an actual Klein bottle to exist in 3-D space?  Probably 15-20 at a minimum, depending on how sadistic the GM is feeling. 

Sounds like a great start!

Ultimately, the GM would have to have something in mind before making such a Catch, and figure out the narrative purpose.

If the intent is to give a thaumaturgist some screen time, and maybe get some game history out in the open through some RP challenges and conflicts, the spotlight would be on researching and satisfying the ritual requirements, insisting that the PCs spend actual game time on satisfying some of the component needs, rather than handling them with the standard Lore Declarations.

But a clever Catch has its narrative value as well, so the focus of that could be for the players to figure it out without dice rolling (perhaps by solving the afore-mentioned riddle) or to make some connections in new territory (befriend a Quantum Physicist, for your Klein Bottle challenge, an Art Dealer for an art-related riddle, a Demon for some unnaturally accurate information).

But the common denominator would be to make the Catch substance a part of the story, rather than just a Resources check or a Lore Declaration.
"Like a voice, like a crack, like a whispering shriek
That echoes on like it’s carpet-bombing feverish white jungles of thought
That I’m positive are not even mine"

Blackout, The Darkest of the Hillside Thickets

Offline bibliophile20

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Re: Catch Ideas
« Reply #36 on: December 27, 2010, 07:41:28 PM »
You don't have to worry. I'll be as obtuse as I can be if that Catch ever comes up: make it a riddle, perhaps. Thanks for the suggestion!

Sounds like a great start!

Ultimately, the GM would have to have something in mind before making such a Catch, and figure out the narrative purpose.

If the intent is to give a thaumaturgist some screen time, and maybe get some game history out in the open through some RP challenges and conflicts, the spotlight would be on researching and satisfying the ritual requirements, insisting that the PCs spend actual game time on satisfying some of the component needs, rather than handling them with the standard Lore Declarations.

But a clever Catch has its narrative value as well, so the focus of that could be for the players to figure it out without dice rolling (perhaps by solving the afore-mentioned riddle) or to make some connections in new territory (befriend a Quantum Physicist, for your Klein Bottle challenge, an Art Dealer for an art-related riddle, a Demon for some unnaturally accurate information).

But the common denominator would be to make the Catch substance a part of the story, rather than just a Resources check or a Lore Declaration.
Glad you like the tagua nut idea.  As for researching the Catch being part of the story, I agree on those points.  (Although a topologist or mathematician might be better as a contact instead of a quantum physicist for the Bottle; you want to start getting into quantum mechanics for catch ideas, I can promise that your head will explode)

But math has so many fun shapes and images that could fulfill some obscure Catch (perhaps for the mental toughness powers that people keep coming up with), like, say, the Calabi-Yau Manifold.  And the best part is, if you describe them in word format, not equation format, and then throw in the poetic license of some ancient wizard writing a treatise in the 9th century on various supernatural beasties... and then sit back as your English major players go nuts.   ;D
Tips for the Evil Henchman:
#12. If the seemingly helpless person you have just cornered is confident and unafraid despite being outnumbered and surrounded, you have encountered a Hero in disguise. Run while you still can.

DFRPG Resources Wiki

Offline devonapple

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Re: Catch Ideas
« Reply #37 on: December 27, 2010, 08:49:47 PM »
But math has so many fun shapes and images that could fulfill some obscure Catch (perhaps for the mental toughness powers that people keep coming up with), like, say, the Calabi-Yau Manifold.  And the best part is, if you describe them in word format, not equation format, and then throw in the poetic license of some ancient wizard writing a treatise in the 9th century on various supernatural beasties... and then sit back as your English major players go nuts.   ;D

The Charles Stross Laundry Stories feature a lot of mathematical/programming imagery their supernatural elements. In that universe, demons and similar monsters are "infovores" which eat energy and minds. Rituals and spells are simply mathematics taken to an advanced, obscure level. There is no barrier between technology and "magic," so programmers who get too creative are "enlisted" (kidnapped and recruited) before they can inadvertently summon anything horrible that would eat our universe. It's similar in tone to Dresden Files, but along the spy/computer hacker axis rather than the gumshoe/investigative axis.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 08:52:08 PM by devonapple »
"Like a voice, like a crack, like a whispering shriek
That echoes on like it’s carpet-bombing feverish white jungles of thought
That I’m positive are not even mine"

Blackout, The Darkest of the Hillside Thickets

Offline Richard_Chilton

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Re: Catch Ideas
« Reply #38 on: December 27, 2010, 09:25:50 PM »
Just thinking...

When Harry was doing a summoning he needed "unnatural rope" - or words to that effect.  Maybe they intended conjured rope as the catch for that summoning.  That would be some trick - mixing a conjured rope with a magic circle and a vastly powerful being.  Truly only the most skill would ever attempt such a thing...

Dresden got some nylon rope - it worked.

Richard

Offline bibliophile20

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Re: Catch Ideas
« Reply #39 on: December 27, 2010, 09:29:20 PM »
The Charles Stross Laundry Stories feature a lot of mathematical/programming imagery their supernatural elements. In that universe, demons and similar monsters are "infovores" which eat energy and minds. Rituals and spells are simply mathematics taken to an advanced, obscure level. There is no barrier between technology and "magic," so programmers who get too creative are "enlisted" (kidnapped and recruited) before they can inadvertently summon anything horrible that would eat our universe. It's similar in tone to Dresden Files, but along the spy/computer hacker axis rather than the gumshoe/investigative axis.

Ah, yes, the Laundry.  Poor Bob Howard.  Have you read the Fuller Memorandum yet?  

Rule #1 for Summoners: Do Not Call Up What You Can Not Put Down.  

Really, that should go for most Dresdenverse summoners, too...

Hmm... Moe's violin would actually make a really good--if gruesome--Item of Power...
Tips for the Evil Henchman:
#12. If the seemingly helpless person you have just cornered is confident and unafraid despite being outnumbered and surrounded, you have encountered a Hero in disguise. Run while you still can.

DFRPG Resources Wiki

Offline devonapple

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Re: Catch Ideas
« Reply #40 on: December 27, 2010, 09:30:39 PM »
Just thinking...

When Harry was doing a summoning he needed "unnatural rope" - or words to that effect.  Maybe they intended conjured rope as the catch for that summoning.  That would be some trick - mixing a conjured rope with a magic circle and a vastly powerful being.  Truly only the most skill would ever attempt such a thing...

Dresden got some nylon rope - it worked.

Richard

Which story was that? All I can remember is the rope with strands of a unicorn's mane/tail woven into it.
"Like a voice, like a crack, like a whispering shriek
That echoes on like it’s carpet-bombing feverish white jungles of thought
That I’m positive are not even mine"

Blackout, The Darkest of the Hillside Thickets

Offline devonapple

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Re: Catch Ideas
« Reply #41 on: December 27, 2010, 09:37:02 PM »
Ah, yes, the Laundry.  Poor Bob Howard.  Have you read the Fuller Memorandum yet?  

I must catch up. I Left off at Jennifer Morgue. But yes, definitely a good place to mine for inspiration, and possibly more magically compatible with DFRPG than Harry Potter's magic system. I'm sure plenty of fanfic ink has already been bled picturing a story in which Dresden encounters Bob Howard as the Laundry rep investigating strange metaphysical happenings in Chicago.
"Like a voice, like a crack, like a whispering shriek
That echoes on like it’s carpet-bombing feverish white jungles of thought
That I’m positive are not even mine"

Blackout, The Darkest of the Hillside Thickets

Offline sinker

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Re: Catch Ideas
« Reply #42 on: December 27, 2010, 10:05:34 PM »
Of note I wouldn't have any problem with giving a creature the ability to counterspell it's own catch. Just means the players can't walk directly up to it and go "Aha! I have conjured your secret weakness and now will stab you with it!" Means the players have to get a little devious.

Offline Richard_Chilton

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Re: Catch Ideas
« Reply #43 on: December 28, 2010, 12:44:16 AM »
Which story was that? All I can remember is the rope with strands of a unicorn's mane/tail woven into it.

Dead Beat.

It was needed to summon the Erlking.  That, unless I'm remembering something else and mixing it up, but I'm sure I remember Butters saying something about Harry summoning it with stuff from Wal-Mart and Harry shrugging the comment off.

Richard
« Last Edit: December 28, 2010, 01:56:15 AM by Richard_Chilton »

Offline devonapple

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Re: Catch Ideas
« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2010, 12:46:40 AM »
Dead Beat.

It was needed to summon the Erlking. 

That sounds familiar - thank you!
"Like a voice, like a crack, like a whispering shriek
That echoes on like it’s carpet-bombing feverish white jungles of thought
That I’m positive are not even mine"

Blackout, The Darkest of the Hillside Thickets