Enchanted Items: Armor vs. Block

[zerogain]

One of my players has a magic ring to help protect him from harm.  I see all sorts of examples as to how a Strength 4 item becomes an Armor:2 item... but no explanation.

How?

Why?

Where's the explanation listed?

[devonapple]

YS 252

Optionally, instead of block strength, you can opt to have the effect work as Armor or as a zone border instead. If you choose the Armor effect, the armor rating is equal to half (rounded down) the shifts put into the spell. The advantage to doing this is that the Armor effect only ends when the spell duration ends—the armor survives a bypassing attack.

[zerogain]

Okay, thank you.  Further questions:

YS252:
"Optionally, instead of block strength, you can opt to have the effect work as Armor or as a zone border instead. If you choose the Armor effect, the armor rating is equal to half (rounded down) the shifts put into the spell. The advantage to doing this is that the Armor effect only ends when the spell duration ends—the armor survives a bypassing attack."

How does this translate into an item.  I can read Harry's coat and it's Armor:2 for 3 uses or something like that.  If I understand how that works that Armor rating expends a use for every attack levied against it, so it lacks this basic advantage above of lasting until the spell duration ends.

Is the advantage and choice here that Armor is reflexive and Block is anticipatory?  Or another way, the Armor would be active if the wearer were hit with an Ambush attack, but the Block would not?

If I'm right, then why choose Armor for an item?  Ever...

[Ryan_Singer]

Okay, thank you.  Further questions:

YS252:
"Optionally, instead of block strength, you can opt to have the effect work as Armor or as a zone border instead. If you choose the Armor effect, the armor rating is equal to half (rounded down) the shifts put into the spell. The advantage to doing this is that the Armor effect only ends when the spell duration ends—the armor survives a bypassing attack."

How does this translate into an item.  I can read Harry's coat and it's Armor:2 for 3 uses or something like that.  If I understand how that works that Armor rating expends a use for every attack levied against it, so it lacks this basic advantage above of lasting until the spell duration ends.

Is the advantage and choice here that Armor is reflexive and Block is anticipatory?  Or another way, the Armor would be active if the wearer were hit with an Ambush attack, but the Block would not?

If I'm right, then why choose Armor for an item?  Ever...

Say Harry's Duster is Block:4 or Armor:2, 3x per session. Only one roll can reduce the shifts from an attack, so if 4 is higher than any shield spell or dodge roll, he should use it as a block, otherwise, he should use the armor aspect instead. The reason it shifting is useful is to stack defenses. For example:

Harry uses his shield bracelet to throw up a Block:5 shield. He gets attacked by a Weapon:2 gun shot at +6. His Duster does nothing at Block:4, as it's worse than his shield, but his duster can give him Armor:2; reducing the 3 stress hit to 1 stress.

[Ala Alba]

Okay, thank you.  Further questions:

YS252:
"Optionally, instead of block strength, you can opt to have the effect work as Armor or as a zone border instead. If you choose the Armor effect, the armor rating is equal to half (rounded down) the shifts put into the spell. The advantage to doing this is that the Armor effect only ends when the spell duration ends—the armor survives a bypassing attack."

How does this translate into an item.  I can read Harry's coat and it's Armor:2 for 3 uses or something like that.  If I understand how that works that Armor rating expends a use for every attack levied against it, so it lacks this basic advantage above of lasting until the spell duration ends.

Is the advantage and choice here that Armor is reflexive and Block is anticipatory?  Or another way, the Armor would be active if the wearer were hit with an Ambush attack, but the Block would not?

If I'm right, then why choose Armor for an item?  Ever...

Evocation blocks/armors are anticipatory. You must put them up as an action(in place of an attack), they then last by default until your next action. If a block is beaten by any roll in this period of time, it's gone, where as armor will remain for the entire period of time. Naturally, you can sacrifice power to extend the duration/size of the block/armor, but the block will still disappear when it's beaten.

For items, it works a bit differently. First of all, you can choose when or if it activates, and you can do so reflexively. For example, you have a block of 4/armor of 2 item, and someone attacks you. First you can roll your usual defense, and then apply the item's effects if desired. Take note that the block option will replace your roll, not stack. The normal duration applies, also. If you use your item as a block, the block lasts until your next action or until it's surpassed, while the armor lasts until your next action no matter what.

[MyNinjaH8sU]

Evocation blocks/armors are anticipatory. You must put them up as an action(in place of an attack), they then last by default until your next action. If a block is beaten by any roll in this period of time, it's gone, where as armor will remain for the entire period of time. Naturally, you can sacrifice power to extend the duration/size of the block/armor, but the block will still disappear when it's beaten.

For items, it works a bit differently. First of all, you can choose when or if it activates, and you can do so reflexively. For example, you have a block of 4/armor of 2 item, and someone attacks you. First you can roll your usual defense, and then apply the item's effects if desired. Take note that the block option will replace your roll, not stack. The normal duration applies, also. If you use your item as a block, the block lasts until your next action or until it's surpassed, while the armor lasts until your next action no matter what.

Can you give me a page ref for this? I was looking everywhere the other day to show it to a friend, and knew I had seen it somewhere.

[devonapple]

YS 280: "Defensive items (ones that provide armor or a block, for example) often consume a use at the time of defense and don’t require a separate action to activate."

[MyNinjaH8sU]

Thank you!

[mostlyawake]

Basically, the way i read it was that an armor or block with a duration of one lasts one exchange, not just one action prevented. so if you have armor 2 and a block 4 on two different items, and guy A rolls 6 on his attack to hit you with a weapon 0 (fists), and right after that guy B rolls a 3, you have two different scenarios (excluding just dodging/parrying)..

1) You defend from A with your armor. You take 4 stress. You then can defend from B with armor (already activated) or with your block.
The choice is yours to take the 1 stress from using your armor, or block it completely with the block (but will mean you had to use both items).

or

2) You defend with your block.  You take 2 stress and your block is gone.  You defend from B with armor (for 1 stress) or just take the hit for 3 stress.

So the advantage of armor remains... it can take multiple hits the same round.  This is why people talk about a layered defense: having both block and armor, so you can choose whichever is best for the scenario.

[zerogain]

Current item:

Ring of Shielding Winds
Slots: 2 enchanted item slots
Effect: Armor:2 (physical), 4 uses per session.
Requirements: Lore: Superb (+5) to construct.

Now as I'm getting on this thread once this item comes into play it only works against the one single attack I bring it into play against.  If I get hit again from the very next attacker I have to consume another of my session uses to use the item?

Here's why I'm asking.  On page 280 on the question of how to use a Block defensively (reflexively), Billy clearly says that the block would last until the end of the next exchange.  Why would the item only be useful against the one single attack?  Should not, then, a block item function until at least the end of the current exchange unless it's broken, and an armor item last all the way through the exchange in which it's brought into play (so as to achieve parity)?

[crusher_bob]

The block (and armor) effects generated by enchanted items normally last the whole exchange.

However, blocks generated by evocation (and enchanted items) are 'broken' if the attacker gets a higher result.

Also, you still get to roll your normal physical defense (usually athletics) while protected by an evocation block.

Examples:

(We'll use you ring)

Our hero has athletics 3, is wearing the ring and is under attack by two thugs (weapon: 2 pistols, Good(+3) gun skill)

The first thug shoots at our hero, the thug rolls (+, -, 0, 0) for a total of 3.
Our hero rolls athletics(+3) to dodge and gets (-, -, 0, 0) for a total of 1.

He'd normally take a 4 stress hit here.  He wants to avoid that, so he uses the ring to generate a power 4 block.
The power 4 block is able to beat the thugs attack result (of 3), so our hero isn't hit after all.

----------

Now, the next thug shoots at our hero, getting (+, 0, 0, 0) for a total of 4.

Our hero rolls his athletics (+3) and gets (+, +, +, -) for a total of 5.  He rolled well enough to dodge the attack.  But his evocation block is broken by the second thugs attack, so it goes down, even though our hero managed to dodge the attack.

--------------
Notes:
Your evocation block can be broken, even if you dodge the attack.
You can't make people easier to hit by 'protecting' them with low power blocks.

------------
2nd exchange

The first thus shoots at our hero again, and gets (+, +, +, +) for a total of +7 to hit.
Our hero rolls athletics (+3) and gets (+, +, -, 0) for a total of 4.
He uses the ring to generate armor and takes a 3 stress hit.

---

The second thug fires at him and gets a total of 3.
Our hero defends with athletics and gets a total of 3. 
The armor effect is still around, and reduces the hit the hero takes to 0 stress.

[zerogain]

Thanks crusher_bob, the exchange was the duration I had settled on after posting last night. However, I was under the impression that the choice between armor and block was baked in, not fluid.

[sinker]

Here's a question. In the example for harry's duster it is implied that the coat is either armor or a block, determined at item creation. Can you have an enchanted item that does both or are they like Rote spells in that they do one thing exactly the same way every time?

[Tsunami]

You can choose each time you use the item, if it's going to be a Block or Armor.

Take a Look at this thread. It's the original thread by Lenny where he explains the Enchanted items.

Under "Other Thoughts", it says

This allows you, on any defensive item, to use either the Armor or block benefit with one use and take the more advantageous effect. It also means that you can get a benefit on odd-numbered Lore scores, and make a defensive item even if you only have Average Lore that doesn't totally suck, because you no longer have to cut the shifts in half twice.

[zerogain]

It may have been lost in there somewhere, I see Lenny's original "Other Thoughts" but the only example I have in the finished book is Harry's Duster:

Harry’s Duster
Susan Rodriguez gave Harry his leather duster. He stitched arcane patterns into the tough material, weaving defensive spells into the coat.
Spell provided: At the time he crafts this (after his first few casefiles), Harry’s Lore is effectively Great (+4). He puts two slots into it, the extra one for frequency. An effect strength of 4 becomes Armor:2, with 3 uses/session. (No mention of variable use here)
Variations: Or maybe it’s a Great (+4) spirit (force) block vs. physical attacks 3 times a session. Later, Harry might spend another slot to add 1 to the effect strength—then immediately reduce it to make the coat loanable to his friends when they’re in a pinch. (Having block under variations lends me to believe that it's baked in, not on-the-fly.)

Now, I'm not some hapless GM bound by "teh rulez" like iron chains, Rule Zero is my guideline.  I can infer from how to make a spell that this on-the-fly management is in there, but I can't, at the same time, alter the structure of Harry's Force Ring to say it covers multiple foes or and entire zone or goes more zones away... Why can I do that to the defensive item?  If I can't explain it to myself, I can't explain it to my players, and nothing works better at a table than "uh... cuz I say so..." [/sarc]