Are those spells workable?

[Belial666]

Assuming you can get the shifts for them, would the following spells work? They are for a defensively-minded, soulfire-wielding archwitch that focuses on Knowledge. Look at the link below if you want to see the character;
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,22323.msg971722.html#msg971722

Armageddon
Thaumaturgy, Summoning/Soulfire 20 shifts
When fighting the forces of Darkness, you might need aid in dire situations and not have the time to fully summon and bind a creature to your will. So, why not call a creature of light that will possibly fight against the forces of darkness? This spell is a 20-shift summoning that brings such a creature into the battlefield - but neither binds it nor compels it to your service. You effectively ask for aid in your direst hour and give the creature enough power to physically manifest so they can aid you. Naturally, one could also call a creature other than a protective spirit or angelic warrior. But given that the creature in question is going to be neither bound nor compelled, the caster better have a high moving speed.

Blinding Glory
Thaumaturgy, Veils/Soulfire 20 shifts
You draw in power and radiance until you glow brighter than the sun both in physical and metaphysical senses. Creatures find it impossible to look at you, let alone attack you. Mechanically, this is a block against perception (veil) that attackers must beat before they can see you. It has an advantage over invisibility veils in that it is not an illusion - but it also has the disadvantage that it might make you unseeable but not unnoticed. In fact, you probably write "a soulfire wielder was here" in letters many can read from the highest heaven to the lowest pit.

Fires of Heaven
Thaumaturgy, Soulfire 4 shifts, zone-wide 2 shifts, 14 shifts for duration
You infuse an area with the fires of heaven, applying the "holy" sticky aspect to it, making it into hallowed ground and creating a bastion of light where the forces of Darkness would fear to enter. Unlike the brief effects of most magic, this burst of holy power is equivalent to a major holy entity touching the place; the consecration will last for many generations, perhaps forever.

Metafaculty
Thaumaturgy, Divination 20 shifts
Knowledge is Power. That is why practically every wizard makes summonings and divinations for information. Unlike most weaker such spells that contact a limited number of entities, you elevate your mind to a near-universal consciousness, cogitating countless impressions and predictions involving the subject in question. You learn about the subject what a knowledge-related skill roll (usually lore or contacts) of 20 would reveal. You might not learn everything but by the time you start learning what said demon's favorite color is or what it ate for breakfast you know you've learned everything useful.

Microcosm
Thaumatugy, Divination/Veils 15 shifts, 5 for duration
Knowledge is Power. Sometimes, when you deny someone that knowledge you can control them far more easily than if you'd attempted to dominate their minds and free will. This spell applies a greater veil on the victiom, denying him knowledge by making whatever you do not want them to know utterly insignificant and immediately forgettable. You could veil a topic, an individual, a series of related actions and whatever else you'd like, depending on how much control you have for such delicate magic. In effect, for the duration of the spell the victim lives in the world as the caster shapes it. Unfortunately, while veiling anything is possible, creating a vision of what si not real is beyond the ability of the spell; you cannot fabricate lies through it.

The Pearly Gates
Thaumaturgy, Conjuration/Soulfire 1 shift for simple object, 19 shifts for extra mass several times over
Using the Fires of Creation as a matrix to support your energy, you create a massive wall from some very hard, very solid material. Considering that only 5 shifts are enough to create a car's mass and 8 would be enough mass to cover a city park in small animals, 19 shifts would be enough for a wall a dozen yards tall and half as thick, around a small town. The wall is easily recognizable as supernatural and, depending on your craftmanship or any shifts you put into making complex parts, it may or may not have "pearly gates"

Sword of Damocles
Thaumaturgy, Binding/Disruption 1/19 shifts
You fashion a binding against some actions on a creature and assign a disruption landmine to the binding to go off if the binding is breached. Instead of creating a powerful binding to make the action impossible, you create the minimum binding possible and the biggest landmine possible (1 shift/19 shifts). The creature is able to easily breach the binding if it tries so it can choose to do the forbidden action anyway. If it exercises that free will though, the landmine goes off, attempting to disrupt the creature's power, severing it from the source and making it powerless. Treat this as a spiritual attack that deals stress - take out does not kill but makes the creature lose its powers instead.

True Creation
Thaumaturgy, Conjuration/Soulfire 5 shifts for car-sized mass, 2 shifts for object complexity, 13 shifts into duration
Using the Fires of Creation as a matrix to support your energy, you create objects no more massive or mechanically complex than a car. Actual technologically advanced objects do not work but you could create a lot of other things. Unlike most conjurations, this one is powerful enough to last practically forever, even if the objects created are recognizably supernatural. Being made of Soulfire, weapons crafted in this manner are especially potent, harming supernatural creatures far more easily than their weapon rating would suggest.

[ralexs1991]

these are nice I especially like the Blinding Glory and Fires of Heaven also that true creation has some potential for major bada**ary

[AcornArmy]

So, I guess the True Creation spell would be mixing ectoplasm with soulfire? Ectoplasm can already use magic to temporarily create solid objects; throwing soulfire into it seems like a great way to create a real, honest-to-God permanent object. You could probably reduce some of the difficulty by starting off with a base object from the mortal world, too, then blending ectoplasm and soulfire together to shape the base object into something new.

It might be easiest to perform that spell while you were in the Nevernever, since it's probably easier to summon ectoplasm and work with it while you're in the spirit world.

[ralexs1991]

@Acorn I'm not quite sure I follow for the blending a real object in with the spell  maybe you could give an example 

[Belial666]

He means take material from the real world (i.e. a piece of iron) and shape it into a sword, for example. That would make a completely real item and would not need ANY shifts for duration - transformations are only a take-out of about 20 shifts and are permanent.


But the object would no longer be made of Soulfire - and thus might not work against evil creatures at enhanced efficiency.

[AcornArmy]

He means take material from the real world (i.e. a piece of iron) and shape it into a sword, for example. That would make a completely real item and would not need ANY shifts for duration - transformations are only a take-out of about 20 shifts and are permanent.

Pretty much this, yeah. I was thinking that having real-world material to work with might lessen the amount of energy required to cast a True Creation spell, since you wouldn't have to create something entirely out of magic-- you could draw on the mass of whatever the base object was. I guess it would effectively be an attempt to blend a transformation spell with the True Creation spell.

I imagined it as something like-- suppose you wanted to turn an iron fireplace poker into a soulfire-infused greatsword. The poker doesn't have the mass of a greatsword, but it has some of the required mass, and it's made of some of the materials necessary to create a greatsword. So, you take the fireplace poker and expand it into the shape of a greatsword, while simultaneously filling in the missing matter with soulfire-infused ectoplasm. I pictured it as pouring soulfire-infused ectoplasm into the iron while the spell stretched the mixture out into the form of a greatsword.

It would increase the complexity of the spell, but it would also lessen the amount of mass you'd need to be conjuring up, and drop much of the energy required to maintain the permanent duration.

But, well, it does seem a lot more complicated than just creating the longsword directly from ectoplasm and soulfire. An expert might be able to use a spell like that to save themselves some effort, but otherwise it might require too much skill to be worthwhile.

But the object would no longer be made of Soulfire - and thus might not work against evil creatures at enhanced efficiency.

Even if you were just using a straight transformation spell, swapping matter from one arrangement into another, you could still boost the spell with soulfire. It seems like that would allow for the inclusion of the benefits of using soulfire. I could even see how soulfire's innate aptitude for creation might help with a transformation spell, if the wizard were of the mindset that they were creating something new from the materials at hand.

[ralexs1991]

you could possibly use that poker as a preparation object to lessen the diffculty of the spell

[Becq]

My answers, for what they're worth:

Armageddon

Seems as though it would 'work', but be ineffective or even counterproductive.  Angelic spirits have no need for help to appear anywhere they wish, but their ability to act is limited by their natures.  So they would be unable to act unless they were destined to act, in which case they would have done so without the need to be summoned.  On the downside, you have succeeded in drawing them away from what they *were* intended to do... 

Blinding Glory

I think that as you've worded this, it might act basically only as a disguise of sorts.  That is, people would be able to look at everything normally, but they would only gain perception-based information from everything *except* you.  They would, in effect, see a person-shaped nothingness (or in this case, a brightness).  But since you aren't actually *attacking* them in any way (you aren't producing a blindness affect, for example), they would still recognize that there is *something* there.  Put in other words, you are sort of casting an illusion over yourself, replacing your image with that of a bright (but not actually blindingly so) light.  So they could, for example, still shoot at 'the light' if they were so inclined.  And I think it would be a light/illusion spell, rather than a veil (which is stealth-based and the opposite of the effect you are creating.

Then again, perhaps it is more of a 'special effect' alteration of the standard veil.

Fires of Heaven

I think that this would work.  That is, it would basically create a new "permanent" location aspect for the area defined by the spell.  It wouldn't be the same as a ward or threshold, exactly, but creatures that are adverse to holy power could be subject to compels against their high concept when entering the area.  Note, though, that the permanency is relative, since the aspect could still be removed fairly easily.  Since it is a maneuver (albeit a very prolonged sticky one), it can be removed by a mere maneuver (as can all maneuver-created aspects).  I think that I'd probably require that this manuever be done by someone who was not adversely impacted by the aspect.  For example, a RCV would be unable to enter the area due to the compel.  But the RCV could hire/coerce a non-vampire into performing a "desecration" maneuver (thus removing the aspect) in the area for them.

Metafaculty

Thaumaturgy can do lots of cool things, but it can't simply manufacture answers from thin air.  You need to figure out where the answers are coming from, then narrate how your spell gets them.  You can get information about a particular subject (for example, where they are, what apsects they have, etc) by making use of the simple action and assessment capabilities.  You can gain knowledge about a subject by summoning a knowledgable entity and getting answers from them by some means.  You can even look into the future, or the past, or read people's thoughts, so long as you're willing to accept the consequences.  But you can't simply cast a spell that generates knowledge from nothing, in my opinion.  Keep in mind that even if you worked the spell as a simple action Lore result of 20, the information gleaned would be limited to the arcane library used in conjunction with the research attempt.  So most information spells are about gaining access to a superior information source (like a intellect spirit or demon or such) and then hiring or coercing them to provide you with the knowledge you want.

Microcosm

I think that this sort of spell is probably feasible, though it would certainly constitute mind magic rather than a veil, along with the baggage that accompanies it.  That is, you are actuallymaking changes to the workings of their mind and memories, rather than simplying altering the information that enters their perceptions.  At least, I think that's what you're trying to do.  If, on the other hand, you are basically trying to create a sort of 'virtual reality' spell, completely controlling everything the target senses, then I think you're in the clear.  But this sort of spell wouldn't impact at all what the target has already experienced.

The Pearly Gates

The conjuration rules are so incredibly hand-wavy that it's hard to comment on the subject.  That said, a reality check: a wall of granite (for example) that was 10m high, 5m wide, and 4km long (which is a bit smaller than the wall you suggested and a bit longer that the wall around Jerusalem, as an arbitrary example), would require about a half million metric tons of granite.  A single metric ton is not unusually large or small for a car.  So we're talking about a half a million cars worth of mass here.  I'm not saying that that your numbers aren't reasonable (after all, the examples they give in the book don't really make sense, either).

Oh, and a counterspell would turn it to rapidly dissolving goo.  So pray that the attacking Mongols don't have a spellflinger with them.

Sword of Damocles

"Landmine" spells are based on wards, which are immobile.  See YS276-277.  That said, doesn't an Oath provide some of this same functionality?

True Creation

Same drawbacks as above, specifically and primarily that conjured items are vulnerable to counterspells.  I also don't believe that soulfire itself can be conjured, so no manufacturing of magic items.  That said, a GM could possibly allow a soulfire-based enchanment to be used as an 'excuse' to create an IoP.  It probably should be a fairly low-powered one (Swords of the Cross have a LOT more mojo behind them than you can channel), and would still cost refresh if you tried to wield it.

[AcornArmy]

True Creation

Same drawbacks as above, specifically and primarily that conjured items are vulnerable to counterspells.  I also don't believe that soulfire itself can be conjured, so no manufacturing of magic items.  That said, a GM could possibly allow a soulfire-based enchanment to be used as an 'excuse' to create an IoP.  It probably should be a fairly low-powered one (Swords of the Cross have a LOT more mojo behind them than you can channel), and would still cost refresh if you tried to wield it.

How do you mean? The very first time that we ever see soulfire in action, it's used to create an over-sized version of Harry's right hand. Harry could use the hand exactly as he used his real one, and could even feel Thorned Namshiel's spikes painfully digging into it when he grabbed the Denarian with it. Do you have some other definition in mind for conjuration?

[Becq]

How do you mean? The very first time that we ever see soulfire in action, it's used to create an over-sized version of Harry's right hand. Harry could use the hand exactly as he used his real one, and could even feel Thorned Namshiel's spikes painfully digging into it when he grabbed the Denarian with it. Do you have some other definition in mind for conjuration?

Conjuration creates a real object out of ectoplasm.  Or rather, it creates something that looks real until dispelled or the duration expires, at which point it disolves into goo, which then further disolves into nothing at all.  The whole Grabbing The Bad Guy With The Giant Hand-O-Doom spell was an evocation grapple with neat special effects, not a conjuration.

[Belial666]

Yeah, Blinding Glory is a reflavored veil, with special effects changed. I simply did not feel that an angelic being should be hiding behind an illusion.

Metafaculty does not pull answers out of thin air. It just contacts a source that does have access to all knowledge on the subject, or multiple lesser sources that have, collectively, all the answers required. As a physical analogy, instead of searching a library with that humongous skill, you are searching the Internet. As a magical equivalent, think of it like the same magic the Archive is based on, only far smaller in scale, applying to a single topic.

For the Pearly Gates spell, the way I was thinking to calculate mass was this; completely eschewing the handwaved, geometrically progressing mass increases once you go over +6 in shifts for mass, use linearly progressing zones instead. One zone would be 20 yards across for large zones. Fill that zone with mass for a 20x20x20 object. 20 shifts = 20 zones or 20x20x400 in volume.  That's equivalent to 15x5x2000, or a wall 15 yards tall, 5 yards thick and a mile long. About a third the size of the wall of Jerusalem.


For counterspells/countermaneuvers, if they can pull the 20 shifts for the counterspell, they should be able to counter them. Less than 20 shifts would not work.

[AcornArmy]

Conjuration creates a real object out of ectoplasm.  Or rather, it creates something that looks real until dispelled or the duration expires, at which point it disolves into goo, which then further disolves into nothing at all.  The whole Grabbing The Bad Guy With The Giant Hand-O-Doom spell was an evocation grapple with neat special effects, not a conjuration.

"Conjuration is the art of creating objects of seeming substance out of nothing. [YS274]"

Essentially, creating something out of magic, which seems solid and real for as long as the magic lasts. One of the easier ways to describe the force-hand spell that Harry used his first time at bat with soulfire might be, "You create a giant version of your hand, which feels and behaves as if it's solid for as long as the magic lasts."

I think what Harry(or Uriel, really) did was to cast an evocation spell which, when soulfire was added to it, became a conjuration spell of a hand, which was capable of exerting the same amount of force as the original evocation spell. Soulfire is the fires of creation, after all, right? It's especially good at creating things with magic. Conjuring things.

Honestly, it seems clear to me that soulfire not only can be used in conjuration spells, but, as much as soulfire can be intended for anything, it's intended to be used for conjuration spells. Creating things with magic is where soulfire really shines, according to Harry, right? And creating things with magic is pretty much the definition of conjuration.

[ralexs1991]

The Pearly Gates

The conjuration rules are so incredibly hand-wavy that it's hard to comment on the subject.  That said, a reality check: a wall of granite (for example) that was 10m high, 5m wide, and 4km long (which is a bit smaller than the wall you suggested and a bit longer that the wall around Jerusalem, as an arbitrary example), would require about a half million metric tons of granite.  A single metric ton is not unusually large or small for a car.  So we're talking about a half a million cars worth of mass here.  I'm not saying that that your numbers aren't reasonable (after all, the examples they give in the book don't really make sense, either).

Oh, and a counterspell would turn it to rapidly dissolving goo.  So pray that the attacking Mongols don't have a spellflinger with them.

South Park anyone "Damn Mongorians tearin' down my city wall!" epic lulz!!!!!!!!!!