Blood Magic - Repercussions?

[Dwaleberry]

Hi,

One way to reach the needed shifts for a high level Thaumaturgy ritual is to inflict consequences on yourself and others. Are there any repercussions one gets when regularly sacrificing the blood of others and/or regularly handing out such sacrificial blood donations?
I have a Thaumaturge in my group as well as a were-creature with Supernatural Recovery. Together they pulled off a high level ritual since the were-creature agreed to accept a minor, moderate and severe consequence, which it healed completely in a very short time, i.e. didn't really feel any real drawbacks to being used as a magic battery.
Since this carries quite an abuse potential in the future, I wanted to inquire whether or not there are any lasting consequcnes associated with either using sacrifices and/or being the sacrifice, perhaps black stains on one's aura readily detectable by Wardens, psychological derangements or some such.
Thanks for your input.

[Tbora]

So long as no one dies (First Lawbreaker) the wardens cannot due jack as none of the LoM were broken.

What you did was perfectly valid and from a story standpoint nothing was done wrong, if for some reason you as the GM feel it should not be done then simply rule against it.

Its as simple as that really.

[Belial666]

Consider this;

Supernatural Recovery costs 4 refresh. With 4 refresh, you could take foci and specializations to increase your Complexity for your favorite thaumaturgy by 7 (+5 focus, +2 specialization) and improve your favorite evocation element by +1 Power too.
This means that EVERY spell of your favorite thaumaturgy is going to be improved by 7 whole shifts - more than equal to paying a mild and a moderate consequence. In addition, this is included in your base thaumaturgic strength, meaning you can do such thaumaturgies without preparation - i.e. only in a couple of minutes.So, for supernatural recovery on yourself, it is about equal to spending the extra refresh in magic.


For supernatural recovery in others, yes, they can heal it really fast. So? In the same scene or so, they are still going to suffer the consequences. They could just as easily use their highest skills on maneuers on you to help you - each successful maneuer is +2 shifts and failed maneuers don't prevent you from casting.

If the other guy is a spellcaster instead of a guy with supernatural recovery, they could just as easily use a 4-shift evocation spell to apply 1 aspect on you to tag in ritual preparation. They do that 4 times without consequences. That's 4 aspects, or +8 shifts. I.e. they create a powered circle for you, forge a magical link to some nearby source of power, invoke lots of magical energy and magically help you focus flavor-wise. You could even do that by yourself - and that's without paying ANY consequences.

[Drashna]

That, and it's a fine line to walk. How long till you need that extra power and "accidently" kill somebody?  By involving them in the rituals, you expose them to risks also. What happens if the ritual falls apart? fallout can be very deadly, very quickly.

[Selrach]

I think the serious thing here is that the wizard in question is perfectly fine with sacrificing parts of himself and others to fuel his magic. Once is no big deal. Twice and people might look at him funny. Thrice and I'd say he once of his Aspects might start changing.

[Tbora]

I think the serious thing here is that the wizard in question is perfectly fine with sacrificing parts of himself and others to fuel his magic. Once is no big deal. Twice and people might look at him funny. Thrice and I'd say he once of his Aspects might start changing.

Aspects only change when a Law is broken.

No one dies, no aspect is changed, as the corresponding Lawbreaker power is not added.

simple as that.

[Richard_Chilton]

It doesn't technically break any of the laws of magic, but I could see a Warden having problems with someone using blood magic.

Richard

[Selrach]

Aspects only change when a Law is broken.

No one dies, no aspect is changed, as the corresponding Lawbreaker power is not added.

simple as that.

I agree by RAW "safe" blood magic does not break laws and thusly change aspects but at the same time it seems like a serious action which has the large possibility of invoking (pun unintended) a change in a character.

I mean sure its no problem when you use someone with increased recovery for a spell, but then wouldnt that wizard start viewing people as spell components?

[Tbora]

that is the case for first lawbreaking ritualists.

If no corruption of thought occurs (per aspect change) then that really does not make much sense imo.

[Belial666]

Aspects also change at milestones. And at extreme consequences.

[Richard_Chilton]

that is the case for first lawbreaking ritualists.

If no corruption of thought occurs (per aspect change) then that really does not make much sense imo.

There are the metaphysical laws of magic, then there's the White Council laws that the Wardens enforce.

When it comes to prospected warlocks the Wardens don't need a reason - they need an excuse.  Especially if the "perp" isn't part of the White Council.

Why would they see it as bad? Because it's the first step on the road to human sacrifice.  You tap friends for normal spell and when you REALLY need help you're tempted to tap them just a bit more.  And then a bit more because this spell really needs to go off.  And then one day things go a bit too far (a bad dice roll) and you've stepped over the line.  The Wardens know that few people would ever go straight to murder for magic - they need to escalate and the Wardens have seen too many people step on that "I'll just take a bit of your blood to fuel my magic" road that leads to murder.

Richard

[Selrach]

Thank you Richard you've seem to understand the point I was trying to get across.  I realize I phrased it poorly in the beginning but I was trying to point out that blood magic is the edge of a slippery slope and could lead a character into very bad things.

As for Warden involvement, I see them falling on this like a house on a wicked witch. Once again, the repeated use of blood magic says disturbing things about the mindset of a wizard in my book. Last I checked Wardens were against that kind of things.

[Richard_Chilton]

Here's a little quote from Last Call (a short story that first appeared in Strange Brew and then in Side Jobs) that sums up how the Wardens deal with practitioners.  It's one of the stories covered by the game, but since some people might not have seen it I'll spoiler tag it:

(click to show/hide)

   “Crap,” Burt said, smiling slightly. “I haven’t had my hands on anything. I haven’t done anything. You can’t prove anything.”
   Murphy stared hard at Decker. Then, quite deliberately, she walked out of the store.
   I gave him my sunniest smile. “That’s the upside of working with the grey cloaks now, Burt,” I said. “I don’t need proof. I just need an excuse.”

That's how a lot of Wardens operate, and that's how the non-white council spell slingers see them.  Even Mac (in White Night) thought that it was possible that Dresden was kicking up people almost at random and killing them.

Richard

[sinker]

Of note, part of the power gained for taking a consequence for a ritual lies in the fact that someone is sacrificing something. If it isn't a problem for them to bleed out then maybe it's a little less effective.

[crusher_bob]

Also remember that the consequences inflicted don't have to be of the bleedy type.  You can dance or, erm, engage in other physical activity until you are exhausted and power thaumaturgy that way too.  Or you could get really stoned or something instead.  And those are mechanically identical to cutting people, or whatever.