Enchanted Items (and Wards?): inaccurate rules or me missing something?

[Richard_Chilton]

That is not entirely correct. The Merlin and the Gatekeeper erected a ward in the Nevernever, in the middle of a battlefield, during combat, to stop an army of Red Court vampires and Outsiders. So it might be possible to erect wards without a base - but you'd need far beyond Harry's skill with Wards to do it.

Shrug.

I didn't say it - some guy named Jim Butcher did.  At http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,1858.msg34804.html#msg34804.  *Thanks, Serack for compiling the list of quotes*
The main reason I quoted it was to show that something other than a threshold can anchor a ward, it has to be more than "I want a ward there so I'm putting it there".  You need something with a "similar energy structures" to a threshold.

About that battle - Harry only hears about it second hand, and that from someone who barely survived the battle.  I'm guessing details were left out.

Richard

[MWKilduff]

2) Enchanted items can be fueled with more uses via mental stress. So even if the uses run out, Harry can still use his items if he needs to.

Where is this extra uses of the enchanted items via additional mental stress written?  I would like to use it in my games.  Thanks.

[Becq]

Where is this extra uses of the enchanted items via additional mental stress written?  I would like to use it in my games.  Thanks.

Here you go:

If an enchanted item runs out
of uses in a session, if wielded by a practitioner,
he may make additional uses anyway by taking
one point of mental stress per use.

[WillH]

Shrug.

I didn't say it - some guy named Jim Butcher did.  At http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,1858.msg34804.html#msg34804.  *Thanks, Serack for compiling the list of quotes*
The main reason I quoted it was to show that something other than a threshold can anchor a ward, it has to be more than "I want a ward there so I'm putting it there".  You need something with a "similar energy structures" to a threshold.

He said that in 2007. Since then both a public rental luggage locker and a public storage facility have been warded. Any "rule" of magic should at most be only viewed as a guideline for how it works for most people, most of the time.

[Becq]

Keep in mind that 'natural' thresholds are not the only kind of thresholds you can anchor a ward to.  A magic circle, for example, is a threshold -- and it can be drawn nearly anywhere.  One exception would be most places of business, since anything breaking the circle -- like wiring on a phone, for example -- would break the circle.  But on a storage garage or locker -- both of which are empty boxes, basically -- it shouldn't be a problem.

[Captain Indigo]

He said that in 2007. Since then both a public rental luggage locker and a public storage facility have been warded. Any "rule" of magic should at most be only viewed as a guideline for how it works for most people, most of the time.

I don't remember exactly about the locker, but I'm fairly certain the storage unit was described as having runes scrawled all over the inside, which would say to me that Harry was anchoring the ward on those runes instead of a threshold.

[Morfedel]

I don't remember exactly about the locker, but I'm fairly certain the storage unit was described as having runes scrawled all over the inside, which would say to me that Harry was anchoring the ward on those runes instead of a threshold.

That locker belonged to Marcone's valkyrie minion, and it was described as.being.covered in runes.

[Morfedel]

After reading the responses here, and a thread on rpg.net on.combat balance between a wizard and a pure mortal, I'm ore accepting now of the enchanted item usage rules. I still don't think they are accurately canon (or is it cannon?), but I will admit that, for the most part, the game rules do a very credible job of replicating the novels, enchanted items aside.

I guess I was being nitpicky.   

[Richard_Chilton]

He said that in 2007. Since then both a public rental luggage locker and a public storage facility have been warded. Any "rule" of magic should at most be only viewed as a guideline for how it works for most people, most of the time.

Jim can (and probably has) changed his mind at times, but as others have pointed out the locker and storage facility had a great deal of work put into them before the wards were added.  To me it's a bit like adding some ogham stones (or something like it) to a structure.

Speaking of those runes, they often take days to draw and can do more things that just function as wards.  I'm not sure if I would treat them as potions or as some sort of magic not covered by the rules.

Richard

[WillH]

I don't see the runes as anything but a bit of color for the wards. That is they aren't something the wards are anchored to. They're just part of the ward. Regardless, there are exceptions to the must have a threshold or couple other rare things rule for wards. So, if you want an exception for your wards, you should feel free to make one.

[Richard_Chilton]

Ogham stones are basically stones with runes carved in them.  Since they qualify, I would say any runes that took weeks to prepare would basically be the same thing, and thus serve as an anchor point as defined by JB,

Richard

[Becq]

I guess the way I'd think of it is this: in order to establish a Ward, you need to have a well-defined boundary.  Circles are ideal for this in Harry's magical style.  The Standing Stones would probably be an ancient magical styles attempt at defining a boundary by way of large, solid, immovable dots that could be mentally connected.  Runes could be used for Runic magic connect-the-dots.  And in this case, the connect-the-dots are three dimensional...

[Kaldra]

as seen in turn coat:

(click to show/hide)

Harry's port-a-bomb-shelter

how would the rest of you work this one out? i can see arguements for it being one really really badass potion ( like ) thing or perhaps even calling it a full out enchanted item that just has a once per major milestone refresh rate with no way of getting extra uses.

[Belial666]

Potion-like multi-item. As in, several slots that are different enchanted abilities in one physical item sort of like having a necklace where every stone is separately enchanted. It requires a Lore of 5 and +1 potion frequencey and 3 potion slots.

1st slot is 10 shift "potion" that applies 3 aspects with two uses.
2nd slot is a 10 shift "potion" that creates a ward - first use is a 10-shift Ward, second use benefits on activation by said 3 aspects above so its strength is pushed to 16.
3rd slot is a 10-shift landmine that activates if the wards are breached. First use is a Weapon 8 zone-wide attack blasting whoever breached the Wards. Second use benefits from 3 aspects on activation, being a Weapon 8 attack on 4 zones, including the zone of whoever breached the Wards.

Yep, it is a weird idea and it kind of pushes the limits of potions but it took 6 months for Harry to make it while a normal potion takes a couple of hours. I am assuming here that Harry invoked aspects during creation so he pushed the potion strength from the normal 5 to the maximum of 10 for him. And yeah, it is a scarily powerful defense - as it should, since the Naagloshi could not breach it.

[Serack]

I don't see the runes as anything but a bit of color for the wards. That is they aren't something the wards are anchored to. They're just part of the ward. Regardless, there are exceptions to the must have a threshold or couple other rare things rule for wards. So, if you want an exception for your wards, you should feel free to make one.

I do not see the locker as warded but as protected by a rune set to trigger off under certain circumstances.  Although this sounds like semantics, the stories of "Something Borrowed" and "Even Hand" showed some very poignant examples of how Gard's magic is rune based.  In other words anytime Gard "casts" a spell it requires a rune that is already pre-made with that particular usage in mind (kinda like a scroll in Diablo 1) in this case, the "scroll" was set on a metaphorical tripwire at the door.  NOT a ward!

As to the Renta-storage unit, There is also the example of Elaine's ward on the hotel door.  You can build wards on non-household thresholds, you just have a really poor anchor for them that severely limits what they can accomplish.  Harry worked long and hard to reinforce that anchor point as much as he could with arcane drawings and runes and such to focus the wards (kinda like the runes on his staff and blasting rods help him focus his magic) and yet from what I remember (fuzzy) he still only had an early warning detection system out of the deal. 

Yah he had a ward, but it wasn't going to liquefy several dozen zombies.  It was much much much more limited than that.

these WoJ's allow for that

No wards on the office.  You need a threshold for anything but teensy defenses, and the office is a public place of business, not a home.

No wards on the office.  To build a ward, you have to use a threshold of some kind.  (Well, you can use other kinds of similar energy structures, like ley lines, ogham stones, etc, but you can't just slap them down anywhere.)  No wards on Harry's office in the books for that reason.

The office doesn't have a whole hell of a lot of "home" energy around it.  Virtually none.  I mean, a hotel room would have more.  Harry could probably sling up some kind of tripwire-rings-a-bell equivalent ward, if he wanted to, but even that would be tricky and he has better ways to spend his time and effort.