Non-magic Telekinetics?

[Ren]

I've been chatting with a friend of mine about pssible characeters for a potential upcoming game and I came up with a character idea I've kind of always wanted to play;

A Telekinetic with a vast array of knowledge regarding Physics and Nuclear Sciences and has VERY fine control of Telekinesis. Fine to the point he can operate it at Microscopic Levels. In other words he could re-arrange molceules into any form he can think of. The potential could be as simple as rearranging the shape of a doorknob so it unlocks to altering the charges of protons to call lightning from the sky or even changing the flow of chemicals in a human brain to alter someone's perceptions and/or mood.

Now all of this could techniclaly be explained via the rules as several variations of magic (Mostly evocation and thaumaturgy (at least as far as I understand the system.) but what if that character was a True Psychic? In otherwords what if his powers had similar effects to magic, but did not actually draw upon magic itself, but raw willpower? While technically magic IS the use of raw willpower to bend the world to your needs, what if it could be done a bit differently? How would those in the know react to someone who could use a magic-like ability hat couldn't technically be countered by magic because it's not actually magic? Specifically how would the White Council react? Or any other Spell-slinger?

I don't know if such a thing actually exists with the Supernatural World of Dresden Files but the potnetial is there. If I actually played this character then for the purposes of the game I'd run him as someone who did not beleive in Magic, but int the power of the mind. He beleives it so strongly that his perception of what he does has been altered to the point where he isn't actually doing magic. I will have to work on this with my GM of ocurse, but I think the idea has some interesting potential.

[babel2uk]

To be fair bothe questions are possibly a bit of a moot point. Firstly I'd argue that there's probably nothing that can't be countered by magic in some form or another. If psionic power is just a focus of will, why shouldn't counter magic, which is effectively also a focus of will, work against it? You can colour it how you like, whether that's the wizard smashing his will into the psionic's will, or into the power of the mental construct. If the psionic power is causing a physical effect then it can be countered like any other physical effect.

And secondly just because you don't believe in magic, doesn't mean that it doesn't believe in you... Sanya is after-all an agnosic Knight of the Cross (admittedly it's a slightly different case, but I think still valid as an illustration).

That's not to say it isn't an intriguing concept - it is - and that a number of supernatural factions wouldn't be interested in such a talent - they would, even if it's just to disect it and see what makes it tick. But I do think its one you've really got to think through with your GM to work out any problems ahead of time.

[Arcteryx]

Anything goes if it passes the GM and your group's collective sniff test. (Similarily any canon would not if it didn't - just cuz its canon doesn't mean you gotta have it in the game) If everybody likes it, go for it. In the end you'll still have to model it on Channeling (Spirit) - just like centaurs model their hooves on claw [-1]. Same end result, same mechanic of getting there, all that differs is the narrative.

[wolff96]

How would those in the know react to someone who could use a magic-like ability hat couldn't technically be countered by magic because it's not actually magic? Specifically how would the White Council react? Or any other Spell-slinger?

I don't know if such a thing actually exists with the Supernatural World of Dresden Files but the potnetial is there. If I actually played this character then for the purposes of the game I'd run him as someone who did not beleive in Magic, but int the power of the mind. He beleives it so strongly that his perception of what he does has been altered to the point where he isn't actually doing magic. I will have to work on this with my GM of ocurse, but I think the idea has some interesting potential.

I'm trying to figure out what the real question here is..  Honestly, whether your Telekinetics are magic or just pure mental potential, they can *still* be countered by magic.  What the White Council does in reaction is going to depend on what your character is doing with his/her powers -- killing people and mind control are still going to be a real problem for a character regardless of whether it's technically magic or not.

And this would be really easy to do mechanically as Arcteryx points out: Channeling (Spirit) -- and Thaumaturgy for anything big/long-term -- and you're done.  How your character views his powers are up to him, but mechanically it's going to work the same.

I'm trying not to be rude here, so ignore this last paragraph if it doesn't apply, but...  It sounds like you want to have the versatility and power of magic without having to worry about the Laws of Magic.  Especially when you talk about re-arranging brain chemistry via TK -- how is your character even PERCEIVING what he's trying to do without any senses beyond the merely human ones?  It's kind of a required secondary-power to have some kind of way to register what you're doing, such as re-arranging molecules...  Not to mention the patience of a god to change trillions of molecules in even a small object.  I've seen quite a few posts on this board where people are trying to find ways to end-run around the limitations of power just so they can do whatevery they feel like without having to worry about consequences...  when FATE is all *about* the consequences and the Dresden Files universe is pretty much the same.  Again, I apologize if I'm reading more into it than you intended.

[Bruce Coulson]

Note that there is NO definitive answer re Billy's contention that he's not using 'magic' (as in spell use) vs Harry and Bob's belief that the Alphas all have one very specialized spell.  So, each campaign will have to answer this question as they see fit.  So, are psychic powers 'magic'?  That's the key question.

[MyNinjaH8sU]

I would actually think that the easy solution to have your cake (flavor) and eat it too (keep the game balance) would be to simply make the character a Wizard who didn't believe they were a Wizard.

Keep the laws of magic stuff, because hey, power corrupts. The rules work perfectly for the kinds of things you want regardless. Give yourself a really high Discipline, and a slightly lower conviction: large scale stuff isn't your thing, fine control is, and you need to be controlled enough not to accidentally set off a small thermonuclear explosion, or irradiate everyone around you while you are splitting atoms.

The only kink in the works comes in that you are going to have to make due without tech from all the Murphonic Field problems. But no worries, there is a solution to that too, if your GM is willing to play along: When your character uses The Sight, have everything they see be broken down as atomic and molecular reactions, thermodynamics and quantum physics. Who needs a microscope or particle accelerator when you can just focus and see it yourself?

I could go on, but what do you think of that idea?

[Falar]

The mana static would make sense too, given that the person would almost always be unconsciously affecting the universe around them given the high level of their control upon the world.

[MyNinjaH8sU]

The mana static would make sense too, given that the person would almost always be unconsciously affecting the universe around them given the high level of their control upon the world.

Ooh, heck yeah! I didn't even think of that bit, but it totally makes sense. If I were playing that kind of character, I'd use the heck out of Mundane Effects: I sit down, and the chair contours to my back. The soup heats as I reach for it... each time.

Also, on another note, that guy's house would be spotless! Think of the potential for stain removal!

[Dumbledresden]

Anything goes if it passes the GM and your group's collective sniff test. (Similarily any canon would not if it didn't - just cuz its canon doesn't mean you gotta have it in the game) If everybody likes it, go for it. In the end you'll still have to model it on Channeling (Spirit) - just like centaurs model their hooves on claw [-1]. Same end result, same mechanic of getting there, all that differs is the narrative.

IMO Channeling (Spirit) wouldn't cover all those wanted effects.
Telekinesis is a very broad talent, and if you are able to rearrange molecules, you can create or influence virtually every element or effect.
Therefore i would say you need at least ritual (summoning) and evocation with two points of refinement for additional elements to cover those wanted effects.

[Ren]

For clarification; there were actually 2 questions here.
1 - Do non-magic-based Telekinesis or similar Psychic abilities exist in the world of the Dresden files? Could they?
> This one was more of a curiosity question that doesn't actually need answering, just an interesting thought.

2 - How would one go about making a Telekinetic with very fine control of his powers in the context of the RPG?
> You've all given me some pretty good ideas on how I can make this happen, thanks for all of the input!

[MyNinjaH8sU]

To answer the first question: No, not as yet according to the books/game. Not to say it couldn't be there, but that sort of thing seems like the purview of magic as it has been described in the setting. If anything, there could be something very not human/playable that accomplishes that sort of effect. But we haven't seen it yet.