Playing a Psychic...?

[Tbora]

Except that magic in the dresdenverse is not hocus-pocus. Evocation is an act of will - the incantation is just a minor focusing aid for the wizard. Besides, there is no reason you cannot use Evocation/Thaumaturgy game mechanics with a different flavor.

No reason you can't, but no good reason you should if there are better alternatives.

[Belial666]

Oh but there are at least three different good reasons for it;

1) You cut down on new powers you have to build and your players to learn.
2) You don't have to playtest if the new powers are actually balanced.
3) Your psion character would work in any game, not just your own game that accepts homebrewing.

[Tbora]

1) not an issue IMO
2) Same
3)And?

Accuracy to me is more important then taking the easy way out.Its makes for a better experience in the end.

[Becq]

My claim would be that 'psionics' is simply magic using a non-traditional evocation system (see the sidebar on YS253).  After all, "using your mental will to manipulate the world around you" is the basic definition of both psionics and magic.  Any differences are flavor text, and seems to me to be a thinly veiled attempt to be able to throw alternately-labelled spells without having to worry about the lawbreaker rules.

That said (and to repeat others) you're free to alter the world to your choosing.  However, if you did add in a 'psionics' that worked a lot like magic but avoiding the consequences thereof, you'd need to balance the two.  That means that the Psionics version of Evocation would need to cost more than the Magic version of Evocation.  Even so, it would be best to use the same rules (in terms of calculating power levels for various effects) for both.

[Tbora]

No you don't, psychic powers would be far less flexible.

No elements to be assigned to fulfill catches, no thaumaturgic rituals, none of the scope magic normally possesses.

The balance is built in by the very concept, it all works out in the end.

All the balance required in this.

No reason for a higher cost.

[furashgf]

I would still like to push for those of us who don't feel the need to be 100% cannon for something stronger than a minor talent, but less than a wizard/magic-user. They sort of get around the lawbreaker thing, but I think they have two compensating things (at least from the literature, a-la Stephen King).

1. they lack flexibility - they're complete 1-trick ponies. A fire starter can start fires, big ones maybe, but that's it. Maybe someone else is like the Dead Zone guy, but he can't do telekineses or anything else.
2. they have some flaw (I'm not sure how to represent this? Permanent consequence). It isn't JUST a different view of magic, it has a built-in price, typically some physical/mental flaw - a rapid drop in morality, migraines, reliance on drugs to just get by, etc.

I think there are better games if you want people with lots of different psychic powers.

So, given the above, what would the template look like? I know you'all have mentioned how to twist the magic system, but I'm not well versed enough to understand what you're talking about. I'd appreciate it a lot if someone could show me what, given the above, a firestarter, telekenetic, or sensitive might be like.

BTW - I did like the other' guy's template but it seemed to broad for the Stephen-King/Scanner style psychics.

[Becq]

Alrighty.  Discuss the balance between the two:

an evoker that does not know fire [-3 refresh]
a psyker [-3 refresh]

Neither has rituals, neither fulfills catches, but the psyker can freely kill on a lark.

I'm glad -- though puzzled -- that you consider armor to be valid protection against psionic attacks, though.

[furashgf]

Hmm...

1. In the books, you get to kill with magic all the time, just not normal people. So it's not a HUGE disadvantage;
2. I'm for the Stephen King model, so psychic powers come with a price. I don't know how to put that in to game terms, but you're getting a blinding migrane, personality disorders, etc. It's not free. It's easier to loose control.
3. You can only do that one thing (but maybe that's included). I'm not for you having a group of psychic powers.

[luminos]

If you want "evolved" humans, then you're in the wrong genre.  Not to say you can't hack FATE to handle that genre.  In fact, thats what you should do for that type of psychic powers. 

If you are looking for psychic powers in the context of urban fantasy, you've already got it.  Magic.  But filing the serial numbers off just to be able to break the laws of magic seems a little... well, not good. 

Show me the middle ground that I'm missing.

[Belial666]

I got an idea on this. Psionics should cost the same as magic but make this comparison;

Evocation and Thaumaturgy;
1) Starts with 3 elements out of (usually) fire, earth, water, air and spirit and access to all thaumaturgy schools
1b) Starts with rotes equal to your Lore.
2) Starts with a specialization in each field and you can get more.
3) Starts with foci/echanted items.
4) Has the danger of Lawbreaker.
5) Hexes technology.
6) Has to deal with thresholds such as circles, private homes and water.

Psionics;
1) Starts with 1 ability out of (usually) psychokinesis, telepathy, clairsentience, psychoportation and metacreativity.
1b) Starts with rotes. Beyond rotes, you need to tag a "focused" aspect to use your power.
2) Starts with a specialization in each field and you can get more.
3) No foci/echanted items
4) Has no danger of Lawbreaker.
5) Does not hex technology.
6) Does not have to deal with thresholds but technology can detect and, for some rare tech, influence it.

[adgramaine]

I would even say that psychics would have to deal with a threshold.

As for some kind of hurt to make things more balanced, maybe a Mental consequence, resisted by a Discipline roll, if the psychic gains more shifts than needed for an effect....? I also like the idea mentioned about having to tag an aspect on a target in order to affect them.

I could even split the template, offering a 'minor' psychic compared to more of a mental powerhouse.

And we're not even mentioning in game balances, like maybe the Fae are attracted to psychics for some reason, and it is a reoccurring trouble for them? Thoughts...?