Author Topic: Social Tank  (Read 6192 times)

Offline Falar

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Re: Social Tank
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2010, 09:38:26 PM »
2) Social Defense is apart of Empathy, its not listed as a part of Rapport which is why I have the stunt there.
YS 138 begs to differ, as does YS 129. Basically, it's listed in both places for different reasons.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2010, 09:41:39 PM by Falar »
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Social Tank
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2010, 10:51:22 PM »
Thanks for the stunts, Tbora. Sorry if I went a bit overboard on the nitpicking.

I would recommend a name like "Look At This From My Perspective" or "Extremely Persuasive" for Coersionist. Something a bit more friendly.

Offline mostlyawake

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Re: Social Tank
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2010, 01:57:28 AM »
Tbora, how do you personally feel about using so much refresh on stunts? That's the only advice I would give a player who brought this to me as an ST.  While I am not opposed to stunts, I often also limit my pure mortals to 2-3 stunts that I know will be used multiple times per session.

Like others said, I'll let you and your ST decide about the stunts. Like, I wouldn't really even let a player move dodge to deceit, even if it is perfectly acceptable by the books.


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Re: Social Tank
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2010, 02:13:38 AM »
I see stunts and the sheer amount they can get to be the way Pure Mortals can compete with Wizards, White Court Vamps, Knights Of The Cross, and Wereforms.

I see nothing wrong with assigning them as many of them as the player wants, and further more would rather quit a game then have a GM who would limit what I can and cannot do with MY character so long as it does not break game balance.

And as for the Deceit stunt, if that is what I as a player wants and its plausible and by the mechanics legal then I expect the GM to keep his mouth shut.

Offline mostlyawake

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Re: Social Tank
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2010, 03:03:43 AM »
I see stunts and the sheer amount they can get to be the way Pure Mortals can compete with Wizards, White Court Vamps, Knights Of The Cross, and Wereforms.

I see nothing wrong with assigning them as many of them as the player wants, and further more would rather quit a game then have a GM who would limit what I can and cannot do with MY character so long as it does not break game balance.

And as for the Deceit stunt, if that is what I as a player wants and its plausible and by the mechanics legal then I expect the GM to keep his mouth shut.

I totally agree about the stunts; as an ST I would never limit the amount someone could take.  My group is very... optimized? efficient? and so they really want to look at, "is this stunt a worthwhile investment for me", almost a bit over "does this better define my character?"  And the advice that luminos gave is fairly solid, and how my group thinks, but it's not for everyone. However, a bunch of fate points is a significant advantage for a mortal.  As an ST, I would feel obligated to point that out, and make sure to ask the player (as i did you) how (s)he felt about taking so many stunts versus leaving fate points open.  I didn't mean to imply that I thought they should be limited.

As for the deceit stunt, it's not really legal/illegal by mechanics, so it's completely fair for the GM to question it.  In fact, the mechanics dictate that there be a bit of back and forth between the players and the GM to settle on such a thing.  Reading over the example on 147YS, where the player wants to transplant dodge to guns, the GM offers two conditions: the first is that it only works when the character has a gun close at hand, the other is that it only applies to ranged attacks. So by the book, transplanting dodge deserves a limiting condition.

My real concern with it is that it allows deceit to pull double duty for defense, defending both physical and social, and that it appears without a limiting condition.  Now, the limiting condition need not be very restrictive (as above, requiring a character who has invested 5 skill ranks in guns to have the gun on-hand while dodging... not really limited).  But, as it stands, your character could be giving a speech, and someone shoots at him, and he defends with... deceit?  It conceptually makes little sense there.  I get what you are saying about feinting (and I read where someone else suggested it as more appropriate than, say, presence)... but I still don't really see it.  If I was the GM, i would probably just ask for a restriction that you must either be moving or have moved in the last turn, or for you to come up with some equivalent justification.  Hell, if you'd described your character as always moving, or constantly fidgeting, maybe with something like that as an aspect, I wouldn't ask for any more justification.

I'm not trying to argue or persuade you, just trying to offer an opinion on why that may not be as rules-solid as it first seem. It certainly doesn't break the game, but it is perhaps more overpowered than -1 stunts.


Offline Falar

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Re: Social Tank
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2010, 07:42:32 PM »
As a GM, I'd be very, very, very leery about allowing social skills to cover physical skills and vice versa. Some stunts make sense and some stunts don't make sense and to me, deceit taking the dodge trapping of athletics is in the grey area between, leaning towards not making much sense at all. If anything, I might throw a restriction on there that it only works while the character is keeping an open dialogue (or monologue if the opponent isn't willing) with the person they're defending against.
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