Newbie Wizard

[wildchicken]

The RPG looks completely awesome. The problem I am having is of course with character creation. I am so used to the structured systems that when I come accross a very open system it is hard to know where to go.

The game we are running is at the Chest Deep power level. I am working on creating a gambler type wizard. Sort of a Gambit meets trickster sort of thing. I was thinking he would be the type of wizard that creates backdoor poker games with both the natural and supernatural playing for favors and magic(and money of course). I was thinking that one of his troubles could be that he can never back down from a bet.

There are a couple things that I would welcome any advice on:

*I am looking at the skills and its hard not to want to get as many superb skills as possible, the problem is that leaves very few other skills at a usefull level. Is it better as a wizard to have a few really awesome skills or a hundred medium skills?

*I want to flesh out my concept as much as possible since I feel that in this sort of game it is important to really know your background.

*What sort of niche could this character have in a party? We already have an information broker type of character. I will probably be the only wizard, but not the only magic practitioner.

*Rotes, evocations, and magic items oh my!(any ideas or suggestions)


*After reading the book it seems that if I want to be able to research and do thaumaturgy rituals of any level it will be important to invest in high resources so I can have a good library, am i interpreting this correctly?

Thank you

[finnmckool]

Well you have a cap on your high end of skills so, you can only have as many as you can have. But sounds like you're gonna wanna put Discipline, Concentration, Lore (the big three) and Deceit on your highest blocks, and then Empathy. That's just a first thought. You're just gonna have to live with not being that good at that much. Remember, that's what aspects, tags, and maneuvers are for.

Secondly, we have a fae in our party who's hell on wheels at glamours and the the like. She's really good at distracting/baiting the bad guys while the Hitters put aspects on the bad guys and lay the smack down. So there you go. You can buy time for other spell casters to lay serious hurt or serious defense. You can make full defense difficult by getting them to burn a move action on you, so they only get the usual defenses, making it easier for your heavy hitter to back shoot'em.

Good luck!

[MijRai]

For a gambling newb wizard:

Skills (30):
+5 Conviction, Discipline
+4 Lore, Deceit
+3 Endurance, Presence
+2 Rapport, Guns/Fists
+1 2 Skills of your choice

That is how I'd play it. For Evocation, go with Spirit, Water, and maybe Earth (mess with magnetics to change dice rolls, perhaps). Thaumaturgy, go with a nicer form of Entropomancy. One that gives good luck instead of the bad stuff that crashes turkeys on your head.

[Papa Gruff]

First of all: Welcome to the forums!

I really like your basic concept. A wizard master poker player? Slammin! You could even make him a pro and do tournaments for a living.

Regarding Skills: What finnmckool said. You really need to set conviction, discipline and lore high, but at least in theory you don't need any skill at superb. Look at Harrys Storm Front writeup for example. Of cause he has a superb conviction but his discipline isn't all that hot. He is powerful yet unrestrained. You could go the other way around and make your spells hit where it counts by favoring discipline over conviction. Lore is pretty much a must for a wizard as is empathy and deceit for a master poker player.

I think it'd be cool if your magic would items reflect your profession at poker. Thats a bit tricky though. I imagine a nice heavy custom made poker chip that could be an enchanted item of some sort. For example it could be loaded with an maneuver that sets BLINDING LIGHT on the Scene and acts like a reusable flash bang. Or how about a lucky charm of some sort that doubles as a shielding item? A shield keyring instead of a shield bracelet...

I agree with finnmckool. You cant't have everything at chest deep and you sure as hell can't have everything at a high level (and for me that has a certain appeal all by it self). Your PC will evolve. An other thing is, that even a good skill is hardly something to sneeze at. I really don't understand where the misconception comes from that skills are only useful if they are great or higher...  

[MijRai]

I agree with finnmckool. You cant't have everything at chest deep and you sure as hell can't have everything at a high level (and for me that has a certain appeal all by it self). Your PC will evolve. An other thing is, that even a good skill is hardly something to sneeze at. I really don't understand where the misconception comes from that skills are only useful if they are great or higher...  

It isn't a misconception. A +2 skill can be good... Unless the other guy has a +3. For spells, you do need higher skills, because otherwise you don't get a strong spell, at least not without a lot of sacrifice. Harry routinely takes more then one mental stress when he torches things in the examples, since he didn't have the control over his power.
The guy with Weapons +4 and a +2 Weapon is going to lose out against the baddie with Weapons +5, even if he has a +1 Weapon. That is the conception, and it is true. The real misconception (that I get at times too) is that you only need physical (and maybe mental) combat skills. Social can be just as bad, if you aren't careful.

[Papa Gruff]

For a gambling newb wizard:

Skills (30):
+5 Conviction, Discipline
+4 Lore, Deceit
+3 Endurance, Presence
+2 Rapport, Guns/Fists
+1 2 Skills of your choice

That is how I'd play it. For Evocation, go with Spirit, Water, and maybe Earth (mess with magnetics to change dice rolls, perhaps). Thaumaturgy, go with a nicer form of Entropomancy. One that gives good luck instead of the bad stuff that crashes turkeys on your head.

I don't agree with this build. It is dangerously focused on the magic and will get the PC get killed fast. Biggest concern would be that he can't do really much against any form of ranged attack as he only dodges at mediocre... From our game experience I really recommend not to stat out a wizard with Conviction and Discipline at superb at the beginning. Not even at a submerged power level. One of them might be ok but you really really give up lots of important things if you put them both up there. Not to mention, that you limit yourself when it comes to evolving the PC later on... but thats just my opinion I guess.

EDIT: Correction: He might dodge at average if you takes up athletics at this level...

[Papa Gruff]

It isn't a misconception. A +2 skill can be good... Unless the other guy has a +3. For spells, you do need higher skills, because otherwise you don't get a strong spell, at least not without a lot of sacrifice. Harry routinely takes more then one mental stress when he torches things in the examples, since he didn't have the control over his power.
The guy with Weapons +4 and a +2 Weapon is going to lose out against the baddie with Weapons +5, even if he has a +1 Weapon. That is the conception, and it is true. The real misconception (that I get at times too) is that you only need physical (and maybe mental) combat skills. Social can be just as bad, if you aren't careful.

I don't see that this is an argument against what I have said. You can't state that +3 is better than +2 ... that is obvious. We aren't talking about that. We are talking about what makes a well balanced character and that they can't have every skill higher then good. That doesn't mean that they are not proficient at the skill. Good is actually pretty nice and tons better then the average Joe is.

In the end it comes down to what kind of RPG player somebody is. I understand your argument, but from my experience a well rounded character is always more fun to play then someone that is only good at that one thing...

[luminos]

I'd recommend something along the lines of:

+5: Discipline, Deceit
+4: Empathy, (insert whatever is useful)
+3: Conviction, Lore
+2: pick two that feel good
+1: pick two that feel good

This Conviction/Discipline setup will give a magic user with ability to do high damage, and very reliable spells, but with weaker effects outside of attacks.  If you don't have an athletics of +2 or +4, I'd recommend devoting some of you focus slots to a defensive enchanted item.  Because this character is somewhat flexible in what he can do (that is to say, he isn't 100% focused on magic) I'd recommend going with the sorcerer template to start off with, so that you can use the extra fate to maintain versatility.

Rotes should be pretty easy.  This setup gives three rotes, so pick an attack, a maneuver, and a block or second attack.  Make the maneuver 3 or 4 shifts, make the (first) attack either 3 or 4 shifts, and make the block/second attack 5 or 6 shifts, depending on how you set up your focus items.  Choose whatever elements seem appropriate.

He'll have a pretty decent niche as well.  He'll be able to do really nice damage in combat, as well as pull off all kinds of deceptions in social conflicts.  He's the perfect character to run a con job with, and can handle himself if things go poorly.  Plus he'd be good at gambling.  In fact, you should probably make one of his open +2/+4 slots Alertness, to go with the gambler theme.

[MijRai]

I don't agree with this build. It is dangerously focused on the magic and will get the PC get killed fast. Biggest concern would be that he can't do really much against any form of ranged attack as he only dodges at mediocre... From our game experience I really recommend not to stat out a wizard with Conviction and Discipline at superb at the beginning. Not even at a submerged power level. One of them might be ok but you really really give up lots of important things if you put them both up there. Not to mention, that you limit yourself when it comes to evolving the PC later on... but thats just my opinion I guess.

EDIT: Correction: He might dodge at average if you takes up athletics at this level...

I forgot about Athletics. Oops. He does still have magic, however. Evocation comes with foci slots. Spend those on Defensive Control and Power, and you have a fantastic defense. Or use them for a shielding Enchanted Item that protects without needing to activate it like Harry's duster.

[toturi]

He could focus on magic and still have a well-rounded character. He just needs to rely on magic to shore up his weaknesses. As it has been pointed out, he could go with more defensive enchanted items. Remember Conviction and Discipline do have their mundane uses, in addition to their roles as 2 of the big 3 magic skills.
I'd go with an "wizard apprentice" build with Channeling (Spirit), Thaumaturgy, The Sight & Soulgaze, Wiz Con and the It takes one to know one stunt:
+5: Conviction, Discipline
+4: Deceit, Lore
+3: Endurance, Empathy
+2: Alertness, Rapport
+1: Athletics, Presence

[MijRai]

He could focus on magic and still have a well-rounded character. He just needs to rely on magic to shore up his weaknesses. As it has been pointed out, he could go with more defensive enchanted items. Remember Conviction and Discipline do have their mundane uses, in addition to their roles as 2 of the big 3 magic skills.
I'd go with an "wizard apprentice" build with Channeling (Spirit), Thaumaturgy, The Sight & Soulgaze, Wiz Con and the It takes one to know one stunt:
+5: Conviction, Discipline
+4: Deceit, Lore
+3: Endurance, Empathy
+2: Alertness, Rapport
+1: Athletics, Presence

It would no longer be a wizard if you took Channeling. Besides, I see more of a use with Evocation for a gambler. Have an Earth Rote that shifts gravity, and you could change dice rolls, and use Spirit to hit the dice in air. Add some magician tricks, and have Fire for a tool there.

[toturi]

It would no longer be a wizard if you took Channeling. Besides, I see more of a use with Evocation for a gambler. Have an Earth Rote that shifts gravity, and you could change dice rolls, and use Spirit to hit the dice in air. Add some magician tricks, and have Fire for a tool there.

It's all light, man. You make it look like your opponent drew a 2 instead if the ace he really holds in his hands and your cards look like a royal flush.

He could drop the It take one to know one, in my build Empathy is only slightly weaker than his Deceit.

[luminos]

Its rather jarring to see a character described as a "wizard apprentice" and yet have a world class skill level in the three wizard skills.  Which won't matter to some, but it bugs me.

[Richard_Chilton]

Personally I like the apprentice wizard as portrayed by Molly's stats in OW.  No, she isn't a wizard - not yet - so looks like it's based off of the practitioner or sorcerer template.  She lacks some of the "must haves" for a wizard, and that looks better than building her off the wizard's template.

As she earns XP she'll pick up the extras she's missing, and once she has paid for all them her GM will probably give her the zero cost stuff and declare that she's graduated to the wizard template.  And she'll get a new robe and be able to speak in front of the council.  And maybe, sometime after she buys off Lawbreaker, she'll be able to switch out her trouble aspect.

Richard

[toturi]

Its rather jarring to see a character described as a "wizard apprentice" and yet have a world class skill level in the three wizard skills.  Which won't matter to some, but it bugs me.

He could be an almost full wizard. Like Obiwan was almost a Jedi Knight in APM. Besides, if he kept getting "only" significant milestones, he couldn't get to full wizard.