Entrigan

[Archangel62]

I was thinking about the idea of trying to make a character similar to Entrigain/Jason Blood for a game but I sort of wondered if it would be appropriate given that normally if you bond with a demon you sort of have it trying to make you do evil. I was wondering what others thought of the idea, and if there could be a catch that you have to use a rhyme to transform.

[Morgan]

I've made a character that was heavily inspired by Etrigan for one of my convention games over the summer, his soul is bound to a Prince of Hell and his body is its prison, his trouble is the aspect "Inner Demon". As for the rhyming thing being a catch for transformation, I'm not sure how that would work. For my character I gave him Supernatural Recovery and Inhuman Toughness with his Catch being the Demon's true name, anyone who knew it could bind, control, and harm him. But I didn't go for a full on transformation, The Catch is really only for giving a discount and a weakness for Toughness and Recovery powers not for controlling transformations.

[Belial666]

Since Etrigan is not a demonic evil that actual Fallen in the dresdenverse are, I'd just make him a powerful NeverNever being. Jason Blood would just have "Human Form" and my special "Plot Armor" power so he does not die by a high-caliber sniper round to the head from a mile away. Comic characters never seem to suffer from that, with the sole exception of Captain America. Here's what I have for him;


[-3] Plot Armor - Jason Blood/Etrigan has physical immunity to any attacks that would actually kill him directly or indirectly. Treat such attacks as maneuers; somehow, they always tend to just knock him out temporarily, miss him by inches, cause just a flesh wound or otherwise fail to kill him. Any attacks that cause stress but not enough to kill work normally. Any attacks that would take him out but not kill him also work normally.
[+1] Human Form affecting all the following powers;
[-4] Mythic Toughness with Catch of "artifacts of faith and holy powers"
[-2] Nigh Unstoppable - Etrigan may use his might skill as defense against both physical and mental attacks and maneuers. He has a further +2 to might rolls defending against magical attacks.
[-6] Mythic Strength
[-3] Reaper's Claws - Etrigan can do attacks, blocks and maneuers with his claws at Weapons+2. They are Weapon 4.
[-1] Wings
[-4] Hellfire
[-4] Refinement - for Hellfire. Etrigan gets Fire control +2, Fire power +1. The bracers that he wears in his demon form are a +4 offensive power focus and a +4 offensive control focus (including the base item slots from Hellfire)
[-1] Spellshear - Etrigan gets +2 to attack rolls against magic - such as magical blocks and magic armor or other protective magic.

+7 Might, Conviction
+6 Weapons, Discipline, Athletics
+5 Endurance, Presence, Intimidate
+4 Investigation, Alertness, Lore
Most other skills default to good, except for high-tech skills that default to average.

[Lanir]

Wouldn't the normal run of the mill stress track handling be up to doing the same thing as you're trying for with the plot armor? It's generally considered bad form to outright kill your PCs in any case. Especially if most of their power is tucked away in another form at the time.

(click to show/hide)

Even in the novels, Kincaid only uses the whole "I could snipe you from a mile away and you'd be dead before you even knew I was mad at you" as a social attack to keep Harry on his toes.

Technically the plot armor power could do something for a character but I think you'd either end up with a case where it does nothing ("you don't die" powers only come up when you would otherwise die... that doesn't happen often, one would hope?) or it's indispensable because people who don't have it are dropping like flies. Pricing it at -3 refresh seems to put it closer to the second category than the first.

[Morgan]

The whole idea of a plot immunity power for Jason Blood seems off to me, he has and does get hurt so it's not like he is immune to damage, he is just functionally immortal and Wizard's Constitution should handle that just fine for the scope of almost any game. All the effects you describe sound like normal stress and consequences to me. And if there is ever a situation where he might actually die after having used up all his consequences well then that is usually the time that he transforms into Etrigan and saves the day, though that point often happens much earlier than when he's at death's door.

I've also been giving the idea of having the Rhyme cause his transformation, the Involuntary Change option for the Human Form power seems to be the way to go. Also is this for a player character, for an NPC, or for some cool DFRPG stats for Etrigan? Because the amount of refresh needed to properly model him is huge, and probably well beyond the starting refresh level of most games. If you want to make him playable you'll probably have to tweak the original concept quite a bit.

[Belial666]

The whole idea behind Plot Armor is that in comics, both heroes and villains have been the target of plots to kill them in any sort of way imaginable. And every one of those plots has somehow failed. Every single one - something happens, in every single time, and the hero or the villain survives... unless the company has decided they should die, which is really really rare.


Thus, Plot Armor.

[HobbitGuy1420]

I think that all those cases of plots to kill the characters failing could be represented as the characters conceding with a taken-out condition that involves retreat, unconsciousness, etc., rather than death. 

That's another important thing to note - A character can ensure that he's not killed by simply Conceding.

[Becq]

I think Hobbit's got the answer.  Assuming the player discussed the concept with the GM and got buyoff (probably with an aspect beyond your trouble representing thepowers granted by the demon -- maybe "No longer merely mortal" or some such), then you could respond to the instant-kill with a concession along the lines of "That wound *should* have been a mortal one ... but I'm no longer merely mortal; I have a demon keeping me up and running [tosses over a FATE point]".

Possibly another way to represent it might involve a custom Sponsored Magic with very narrow abilities such as protecting from otherwise fatal wounds ... in exchange for a point of debt to be cashed in later.  This is actually very similar in effect to the Plot Armor method, but taken from a different angle.

[Belial666]

Well, you concede. And whoever wants to kill you comes up and shoots you in the face after you conceded. Now you're dead. Simply put, conceding doesn't stop someone from killing you. You just surrender or attempt to flee. The enemy has the option to pursue and kill you anyway.


Besides, you can only conceed if the attack didn't kill you but the next attack might and you want to surrender or flee. If someone shoots you in the back of the head from a mile away, you get no chance to conceed. If someone bombs the building you are in, you get no chance to conceed.

[Becq]

Read the concession rules again.

"A concession is basically a special form of
being taken out—you lose the conflict, but you
get to decide your character’s fate on your own
terms instead of your opponent’s."

If I suggest to the GM that "The troll throws that rock at me, but scores a glancing blow, knocking me of the bridge and dazing me until I come to my senses on the shore several miles downstream" and the GM agrees that that is a fair concession, then that is whiat happens.  No "...but the troll immediately dives in and rips your head off".  This is an out-of-character mechanic we're talking about, not a RPed attempt to surrender to the bad guy, which is entirely different.

And yes, you must decide to concede before the roll occurs, not after you learn the results.  So if the GM tells you that you suddenly hear a shot ring out and feel a sudden pain in your chest -- and then pulls out the dice -- you need to offer the concession right then, not after you see whether or not your kevlar vest stopped the round enough for you to keep fighting.  And, of course, the GM can choose not to accept your concession if it's ridiculous.  But invoking an aspect that the GM had already agreed would affect this sort of circumstance buys a lot of credibility.

[blues.soldier]

Plot Armor really sounds like it would only be useful in a game with a dickhead GM. Other than that, concessions are the way to go.