A good source for character concepts

[Richard_Chilton]

Just thinking about concepts, and thought of a good source of them that I'd like to share: the books of Simon R Green.  Most of his books feature fantastic characters that he introduces, gives a back story, then ruthlessly kills off.

For example, in one book he introduced The Sinner.  He was a man who sold his soul to the Devil in exchange for someone he could love, and the Devil gave him a succubus with a nice face.  At the end of seven years the Devil came to collect and laughingly revealed the succubus' true form.  The man said that he knew, that he had always known, but he loved her anyway.  So the Devil takes the man to hell and gives him the standard tortures, but the man still love the succubus.  True Love has no place in hell (and is bad for morale) so the Devil kicked him out - but of course he can't go to Heaven because he sold his soul, so now he wanders the Earth.  If memory serves his main power was that he couldn't die.

Each of his Nightside books has 2 - 4 character like that - many of whom don't survive the book where they are introduced.  Of course they would need to be adapted somewhat, but most of them could easily show up in a Dresden book.

Richard

[Arcteryx]

Nice.

I enjoy the character concepts and ideas like these that ring true and effortlessly push follow-up story ideas to players, GMs and groups - and aren't there just as window dressing that barely covers for a min/maxed combat monster.

[Bubba Amon Hotep]

Okay, if you enjoyed the novels GREAT! I am honestly happy people are reading.

I attempted to enjoy Simon's work.  To me it was like a popcorn and explosions movie.  You don't watch it for the plot, the characters, or the dialog, you are just there to be entertained and not think.  Perfect movie to talk to a friend through and you won't miss anything.  Fun, but lacking in my mind.

To be more specific, I just couldn't get past the underlying tone of the characters he created.  For instance the main character flees the "Nightside" for fear of death.  When he comes back, his pursuers show up, only to be easily defeated by one of the main characters friends.  Guess he fled for no reason.  The characters Simon introduces are over the top larger than life Min/Maxed player characters.  Get them together and they can destroy the world. ( Something even eluded to in book 1)

Perfect example is his Ex-Girlfriend storming a heavily guarded fortress.  A fortress which has at hand every weapon, bomb, and type of protection it can afford. She has them all on the run with a shotgun.  The main character arrives on scene and simply yells into the room. IE: His intimidate roll alone is enough to "take out" everyone in the conflict.

Guess in Simon's world everyone is playing at refresh -20 or -30.

[Richard_Chilton]

Simon's work is full of characters like those.

Julian Advent, the Victorian Adventurer, tossed forward through time when his fiance betrayed him for his archenemy. He had created a formula that could distill the good or bad aspects of a person, and embraced the good side. Think  Mr. Hyde's opposite number.

Walking Man, from Just Another Judgement Day, who has been charged by God to punish the guilty.  He walks because there's no need to run - he will get his target and everyone knows it.

He even interesting groups interesting groups like the Little Sisters of the Immaculate Chainsaw - nuns who fight evil with a hands on approach.

Even the names of the characters are enough to base characters off of.  Such as:
Ms.Fate, the transsexual superhero(ine).

Razor Eddie, god of the Straight Razor and warrior on the side of good (and no, good doesn't get a vote on that).

The Hangman's Beautiful Daughter - a woman with powers based on darkness who fell in love with a man whose powers were based on light.

Wonderful characters with beautiful aspects that can easily be borrowed for a Dresden game.

Richard

[toturi]

When your mommy is Lillith, your Refresh ought to be that high. 'Sides, it seems that it isn't really that John has that high a Refresh, just that his Intimidate and Deceit are up the wazoo, you can do that without having a high Refresh; you just need to clock lots of Significant Milestones without any Major Milestones (on the other hand, you can't clock Major Milestones without gaining the increase in skills).

Even Suzie doesn't seem to have high Refresh, she has uber-Guns, maybe Kincaid level of Gun-stunts, but she doesn't seem to have high Refresh.

[Bubba Amon Hotep]

I would say high refresh, his "gift" is a -15 or -20 by itself.

John is trapped.  He taps his "gift" for all its worth.  Which allows him to shift dimensions, rip a creatures heart out, and not have a scratch to show for it.  Oh, and he does it with his MIND. 

Or how about when he uses his "gift" to rewind time, looks at where nearly everyone in an city larger than London has been for the last month, and only gets a small nose bleed.

Or when the guy told him destroying the planet was his fault.

And this is all book 1.  He hasn't "achieved milestones".

When your mommy is Lillith, your Refresh ought to be that high. 'Sides, it seems that it isn't really that John has that high a Refresh, just that his Intimidate and Deceit are up the wazoo, you can do that without having a high Refresh; you just need to clock lots of Significant Milestones without any Major Milestones (on the other hand, you can't clock Major Milestones without gaining the increase in skills).

[Richard_Chilton]

Okay, if you enjoyed the novels GREAT! I am honestly happy people are reading.

All books are a matter of taste.

I attempted to enjoy Simon's work.  To me it was like a popcorn and explosions movie. 

His longer books have more plot to them.  Drinking the Midnight Wine, the Secret Histories, and Shadows Fall come to mind.  The Nightside ones always seem a bit crammed - they could easily be twice as long.

To be more specific, I just couldn't get past the underlying tone of the characters he created.  For instance the main character flees the "Nightside" for fear of death.  When he comes back, his pursuers show up, only to be easily defeated by one of the main characters friends.  Guess he fled for no reason.

Well, that friend was a god (small g) and also the person who made sure his enemies would find him at that place.  It seems he owed the main character a favour and wanted to pay it back, so created a situation where he could save the character's life...
But the enemies were replaced and kept coming.  In one of the later books he discovers who they are/were and is shocked by their identities.

The characters Simon introduces are over the top larger than life Min/Maxed player characters.  Get them together and they can destroy the world. ( Something even eluded to in book 1)

I wouldn't say they are min/maxed.  Most of them are damaged in one way or another.  Larger than life? Sure.  A couple of them are at old testament power levels.  They usually battle forces at the same level and often die.

Perfect example is his Ex-Girlfriend storming a heavily guarded fortress. 

I know it isn't a Dresden book, but I'll tag this in case others want to read that series.

(click to show/hide)

Later you find out why his girlfriend shot him in the back, and why they were never close.  As a child she was repeatedly raped by her brother and when she became pregnant her parents wouldn't believe her and forced her to have an abortion at 13.  She has deep scars from those times - and she's killed family members.

And in another book, the main character does everything he can to save a friend but the reoccurring character still dies a useless death.

Or to put it another way, the characters might be powerful but none of them are Mary Sues.

Guess in Simon's world everyone is playing at refresh -20 or -30.

Or higher.  Seriously, there's one book where the Angels of Light and Darkness are fighting (both sides dispatched their agents in attempt to find the Unholy Grail) and there are background characters who can take them on.  One on one, they take on angels (fallen or otherwise).

The power levels are off base, but the characters themselves are based on interesting and unique concepts - well, except the ones he rips off like the Crow clone named Dead Boy (but even there you have someone undead who tries to drink and party - which was different).  I'm not saying to stat characters off of those characters, but to mine them for concepts.  To steal an aspect here and another one there.

Richard

[babel2uk]

I'd recommend Mark Chadbourn's Age of Misrule trilogy (and the two follow on trilogies - The Dark Age and The Kingdom of the Serpent).

[KOFFEYKID]

The main reason why I dislike Simon R. Greenes books is simply that he is a boring writer. He uses the same turns of phrase in each book. If I have to read "and so I fired up my gift, my private eye, my third eye, and I immediately saw X. It was the easiest thing in the world to do Y to X, then my target went all Z and I won."

Boring. Boring boring! Gimmie something new!

[Bubba Amon Hotep]

@Richard

Yes the characters could be broken down into components.  And have pieces salvaged out of them for a new character in the DFRPG.  I would just be afraid of someone trying to use the "whole character".

I also agree all books are a matter of taste.

I recently started reading The Worm Ouroboros by E.R. Eddison.  I am torn.  People don't speak like the book is written in this day and age, sometimes I wish they would.  I am quite happy however, that genres have formed that allow a generally understood mythos.  Eddison spends a good deal of prose describing the beasts that today would simply be recognizable by name.

Example:  "A chariot coloured like the halo about the moon waited by the window, poised in air, harnessed to a strange steed.  A horse it seemed but winged like an eagle, and its fore-legs feathered and armed with eagle's claws instead of hooves.  A black, round-headed bird, short beaked, and eyes like two stars shining.  It spoke and said, "Time is."

True the book was first published in 1922, but the term "Griffon" is undoubtedly more known in todays public.  And a modern author can be lazy and write, ( A Griffon, harnessed to a Chariot, spoke, "Time is." )  But I am rambling off topic.

END
 

[Kaldra]

if your looking for someplace to mine characters from i would recommend:

"The Wheel of Time" series by Robert Jordan be warned to finish the series will take you at least a week for you could also read war and peace ten times for the same page count. This Lord of the Rings esc series takes the hero cycle, uses it and then takes it out to pasture and kills it over twelve thousand pages of fantasy and adventure. for more information  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wheel_of_Time

The Magic The Gathering books. The collectible card game magic has a very rich back story with a majority of it all taking place on one plane over thousands of years, i would recommend starting wit the anthologies and then following the series chronologicaly, while each cycle does stand on its own for the most part you will get much more out of it in the long run if you start at the beginning.

dont kill me for this but... The Shannara series can be a good read if you dont mind seeing some material that looks familiar if you have read the lord of the rings.

[Wyrdrune]

The main reason why I dislike Simon R. Greenes books is simply that he is a boring writer. He uses the same turns of phrase in each book. If I have to read "and so I fired up my gift, my private eye, my third eye, and I immediately saw X. It was the easiest thing in the world to do Y to X, then my target went all Z and I won."

Boring. Boring boring! Gimmie something new!

Reminds me of German writer Wolfgang Hohlbein. I did enjoy his books when I was young until I noticed that almost whole pages were re-used in other books by him.

[Richard_Chilton]

For the most extreme example of reusing text you have to read Moorcock.  Not that Moorcock can be a good source for character concepts - the S&S motif doesn't really map well and most of his modern stuff is a bit too weird for the Dresdenverse.

I agree that copying character can be bad, but some books can inspire concepts better than others.

If anyone would like to see a typical Simon R Green story, there's one in Mean Streets along with a Dresden one (I think it's Warrior - a short story that happens after Small Favors).

Richard

[FangGrip]

Another series that should be considered is the Nightwatch Tetraology by Sergei Lukyanenko.

[Bruce Coulson]

Glen Cook's Garrett series (Sweet Silver Blues, etc.)  Although the setting is medieval/Renaissance, much of the action and characters derive from the Raymond Chandler/Phillip Marlowe genre that Dresden comes from.  Modernize the characters, and you have some types that would fit very well.  (Morley as a Winter Court Changeling - strength, speed, and an attitude.)