Making Holy Water.

[ryanroyce]

Dresden needed a Knight of the Cross to introduce him to a Priest in the Know to get access to large amounts of holy water.

 Point of order, but IIRC, Michael was surprised that Harry already knew Father Forthill when he attempted to introduce them to each other.  I'd have to read Grave Peril again in order to be sure.

[Becq]

If you need rules for it, you could probably call it a ritual and adapt the rules for conjuring.  By default, Holy Water is pretty simple stuff (no moving parts and such, so perhaps the base difficulty would be a mere 1.  That would be for, say, a vial of holy water.  Then make up a size chart similar to the time charts, perhaps something like this:

  vial - pint - gallon - basin - tub - spa - pool

Each step up the chart requires an extra shift.  Base time might be the length of a typical mass or service, and the time could be reduced by paying shifts.  Translate the preparation options for Thaumaturgy into more religeous trappings, such as holy places instead of ley lines, blessed fonts in place of a ritual circle, meditating on the scriptures instead of spell library research, etc.

The rolls would certainly require Conviction and possibly Scolarship or Lore, and only those with the proper Template and/or True Faith powers would be capable of creating it.  There might even be room for a stunt adding an 'expertise with holy rituals' trapping to Scolarship.

[Todjaeger]

Out of curiousity, has anyone asked a priest/minister/reverend what is actually involved in making holy water?

I bring this up because as I understand it, the process to make water "holy" is essentially a ritual which the appropriate type of person, having the appropriate knowledge, is able to do.  Whether or not the requirement is that someone be an ordained minister/priest/etc AND knowledge the religion-specific ritual, or if a layperson with knowledge of the appropriate ritual can do so would likely fall into the realm of GM's choice. 

Something else worth thinking about, is just what exactly is it that gives holy water its 'power' as it were?  Is it that due to the ritual(s) the Almighty by whatever name one choses to use empowers the water, or is it that the water is able to tap into the power stemming from the collective belief of mankind in the Almighty?

[Becq]

Out of curiousity, has anyone asked a priest/minister/reverend what is actually involved in making holy water?

This might be of interest, though I couldn't tell you if this is 'authentic' or not.  Regarding your last point, I think that certainly in the Dresden 'Verse, the creation of 'true' holy water would basically amount to the channeling of divine energy through a person of true faith (or perhaps more specifically a cleric of true faith) into the water.  In spellcasting, the specific rituals are not integral to the spells, rather they are mechanical constructs to make it easier for the caster to focus his will.  I suspect that holy water creation is much the same: God is unlikely to care about the words that are said, rather the rituals help focus the mind of the cleric on his holy task.

[Todjaeger]

This might be of interest, though I couldn't tell you if this is 'authentic' or not.  Regarding your last point, I think that certainly in the Dresden 'Verse, the creation of 'true' holy water would basically amount to the channeling of divine energy through a person of true faith (or perhaps more specifically a cleric of true faith) into the water.  In spellcasting, the specific rituals are not integral to the spells, rather they are mechanical constructs to make it easier for the caster to focus his will.  I suspect that holy water creation is much the same: God is unlikely to care about the words that are said, rather the rituals help focus the mind of the cleric on his holy task.

Actually, some rituals are able to be used by anyone.  That is one of the reasons why the White Council's publishing arm can be so active in printing some occult material, since demon/Outsider being XYZ has a finite amount of power, and if there are many people (attempting) to call upon that power, there isn't sufficient power to go around...  Now in the case of someone doing something to attract the attention of the Almighty (the rite/ritual to make holy water) I suppose people can assume that there is always enough power to go around.  At least to make holy water anyway.

[finnmckool]

Ummm a priest blessed my first rosary. Took him about half a minute. He wasn't kiddin' around about it either. It's a prayer and a sign of the cross. That's it. You wanna get fancy? five minutes and some incense for Holy water. However, I DO know that they keep a big tureen of it in the back, so at least it LOOKS like they don't just get it out of the tap. For appearances sake they probably get it from a spring (because the Church likes appearances).

Now, if you wanna get super awesome, people send out Lourdes Water all the time. Like from Our Lady of Lourdes, and the healing spring there, etc etc. THAT I would rule as being awesome holy water and give it a bump in the effectiveness department. Catholic charities send out little plastic bottles of it all the time.

[Becq]

Heh, I realized that in my previous post I had cleverly managed to leave out the link that I thought might be helpful. Here it is:

http://www.daytonlatinmass.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/blessing-of-water.pdf

Looks fairly short (maybe 5-10 minutes?) plus some additional time prior to the rite itself to prepare the salt water.

[Richard_Chilton]

Thanks! That's the sort of thing I was looking for when I searched for "buying holy water".

I'd say any priest that performed that service would make holy water, regardless of whether the priest had any Faith powers.

Richard

[Becq]

Thanks! That's the sort of thing I was looking for when I searched for "buying holy water".

I'd say any priest that performed that service would make holy water, regardless of whether the priest had any Faith powers.

Richard

I'd take a bit of a different approach.  Any priest (or, for that matter anyone at all) can make holy water.  Just mix salt and fresh water, say some mystic mumbo-jumbo, and presto!  You now have some holy water.  But if, on the other hand, you are loking for Holy Water ... well, for that you need someone with some True Faith backing them up.  For purposes of The Catch, holy water is just a mixture of salt and water; it takes Holy Water to mess with a supernature creature!

Another way to approach this might be to say (as you did) that any annointed priest could make holy water that was good enough to satisfy a Catch, but that Holy Water made by a priest with True Faith is extra-potent.  Perhaps it gains Holy Touch-like abilities, granting an extra stress point or a free compel in addition to satisfying The Catch.

[cetra02]

Another way to approach this might be to say (as you did) that any annointed priest could make holy water that was good enough to satisfy a Catch, but that Holy Water made by a priest with True Faith is extra-potent.  Perhaps it gains Holy Touch-like abilities, granting an extra stress point or a free compel in addition to satisfying The Catch.

This is how we use it in our game.  We have a character who is Wiccan and her parents have True Faith.  They make Holy Water for us to use if needed.