A new Gun Stunt

[HumAnnoyd]

So I was trying to come up with some more stunts for a Spec Ops type character and this came to mind:

Double Tap (-1) Add 3 to the damage of a Guns attack on a successful hit, once per scene, for a fate point. This stacks with any other damage-increasing stunts for Guns.

It is obviously based on the Fists Stunt Lethal Weapon but does it become too powerful since a gun already adds damage?  Should the extra damage be lowered to 2 or even 1?  What do you guys think?

[JosephKell]

It is a valid stunt.

It is based on Killer Blow.  But even Killer Blow is kind of weak.

I will break this type of stunt down.
1.  It is a stunt, so that is -1 refresh.
2.  It requires a fate point to get +3 effect (which can be invoked on an aspect for +2 effort which can convert to shifts of effect anyway).
3.  It is once per scene.

It is basically a "once per scene aspect that can't be compelled."  If you already have 2 or 3 aspects that can be invoked for face punching, then I guess it is a decent stunt (you still give up a fate point each scenario for it) that can be used once per scene when you are sure you are going to hit away.

Reminders:
Effort = Skill + Roll (+ aspects)
Effect = Effort - Difficulty.

Another way to phrase Double Tap could be:
Attack with Guns at -1 but you gain +3 effect on success.  This stunt uses twice the number of bullets.

I know +3 effect seems huge for a -1, but that -1 negates one of the effect bonuses.  So it really is -1 to hit for +2 net damage.

I would take that stunt over the fate point powered one.

[Deadmanwalking]

What he said.

If you really want an FP powered version, make it +4 damage instead. It needs it to be worth it. That's what I do with Killing Blow.

[Remy Sinclair]

There are a lot of really cool Gun Stunts in Evil Hat's Spirit of the Century game, which I own. When Dresden was in the works Evil Hat said this game was the prototype to the system they will be using for Dresden Files.

I would list the descriptions but I am afraid the Admin would not like that because it would violate copyright. I can at least give you the names and page numbers, I also removed the ones that are in the Dresden Game already. It is up to you as the GM if these should be in your game and get the book, which I think is a good idea.

Aiming

• Long Shot [Guns] (SoC pg 157)
• Shot on the Run [Guns] (SoC pg 157)
• Trick Shot [Guns] (SoC pg 157)

Ammunition

• One Shot Left [Guns] (SoC pg 158)
• Rain of Lead [Guns] (SoC pg 158)

Draw

• Quick Draw [Guns] (SoC pg 159)
• Lightning Hands [Guns] Requires Quick Draw. (SoC pg 159)
• Snap Shot [Guns] Requires Lightning Hands. (SoC pg 159)

Firepower

• Gun-Crazy [Guns](SoC pg 159)
• Custom Firearm [Guns] Requires Gun-Crazy. (SoC pg 160)
• Two Gun Joe [Guns] (SoC pg 160)

[wyvern]

SotC is (sans some examples) available online.  ...Of course, your page numbers help not at all with looking stuff up in the online version, but at least it's got an index!

[Remy Sinclair]

SotC is (sans some examples) available online.  ...Of course, your page numbers help not at all with looking stuff up in the online version, but at least it's got an index!

Well all I have is the book but what makes the PDF so different? My Dresden Files PDFs match my Book Numbers so it should do the same for Spirit of the Century if not sorry for the PDF people.

[wyvern]

It's not a pdf; that's what makes it different.  :-P

However, I did not mean to disparage your inclusion of page numbers at all, and my apologies if it sounded like I was.  Page numbers are good and useful things.  Mostly I just wanted to make known that there *was* an online version; the bit on page numbers was an offhand comment meant to be more along the lines of funny than anything else.

[HumAnnoyd]

Interesting.  I thought this might be considered too powerful but I am getting the opposite reaction.  I do have SotC and it inspired me to come up with the stunt.   

A net +2 without spending a FP is pretty nice.  Maybe that would be the way to go. 

[JosephKell]

Well, remember it is -1 on the attack, then if successful +3 effect.

If you just wanted to give effect on a gun (which are usually in the range of Weapon:2 or Weapon:3 to begin with), I would make it just +1 effect (with no attack penalty).

Or +2 under a specific circumstance.

Although, if you want to be technical, Double Tap (in real life) isn't about more damage, but a better chance of hitting at least once (the shock of getting hit tends to disable most amateur gunmen).  So you could say double tap lets you do Guns + 1, but it uses two bullets and can only be attempted with an autoloader gun (revolves, breach loader, and bolt action weapons need not apply).  But I would also say it can't be combined with a spray attack (if you had such a stunt or were using an automatic capable weapon in automatic mode).

Using 2 bullets doesn't seem like much of a cost for +1 on Guns, but it doesn't seem any less strict than Sanya's "I use Russian guns at +1" stunt.

You may say "What if both bullets hit?"  Well that could just be a really good fudge roll (+2 or more on 4dF could be both bullets hitting).  Excess Effort (a.k.a. Effect) converts to physical stress.

[HumAnnoyd]

I get it.  And I thought double tap was just a very good way to drop nearly any target.  Except a Troll maybe.   

[Kodiakc]

for Trolls i would go for  the Failure Drill

2 shots to the chest and 1 well aimed shot to the head 

[Belial666]

At which time the troll/ogre will move up to you, punch you twice through the chest and rip off your head. Unless you're using specialized bullets or really big guns, trolls and ogres tend to be mostly bulletproof; armor 2 and a 10-box stress track means they could take a dozen bullets from the average gun with very well-aimed shots 4 shifts over their own defense roll (i.e. shots to the face) before they go down.


Oh, and here is my version of Double-Tap;

Double-Tap;
If you succesfully shoot your target with a gun and deal stress, you can take advantage of their momentary pause to shoot them again before they can dodge; sacrifice your next action to do another attack on the same target at +1 to your guns roll.

[HumAnnoyd]

Double-Tap;
If you succesfully shoot your target with a gun and deal stress, you can take advantage of their momentary pause to shoot them again before they can dodge; sacrifice your next action to do another attack on the same target at +1 to your guns roll.

Hmm.  That actually makes more sense.  I was kind of looking for a way to make a lowly gun toating human more of a threat in the damage department.  Great thing about this game is that there are nearly half a dozen ways to deal with the concept of this stunt and all of them are perfectly valid.  I love that.

[Kodiakc]

Actually the Failure Drill is a real Technique  but wouldn't True Faith also work as well as/or oppose to specialized ammo and big guns?
just a thought.

At which time the troll/ogre will move up to you, punch you twice through the chest and rip off your head. Unless you're using specialized bullets or really big guns, trolls and ogres tend to be mostly bulletproof; armor 2 and a 10-box stress track means they could take a dozen bullets from the average gun with very well-aimed shots 4 shifts over their own defense roll (i.e. shots to the face) before they go down.

[Barrington]

Hmm.  That actually makes more sense.  I was kind of looking for a way to make a lowly gun toating human more of a threat in the damage department. 

In order to do that, all you'd really need to do is get bullets that satisfy the catch. Trolls? Use iron bullets, or military steel-jacket rounds. Or, you could always just use bigger guns. Since the Expendables recently came out, I'll use an example from that. If you gave someone like Hendricks an AA12 with those Frag-12 grenade rounds, he'd be a threat to damn near anything. Sure, you'd need a hell of a lot of Resources and Contacts to get your hands on one, but since you're still at the character creation stage, that would be doable.