The battle against Kalshazzak

[Bernd]

Hey!

I thought about the battle against Kalshazzak (the toad demon from Strom Front) and I have two questions about how you would rule it if one of your players was Harry:

1. The magic circle: I would consider it as threshold, since he cannot even leave it with one finger without breaking it. Rules-wise I would call for a roll of Conviction and a base value of +2. So Harry could create a threshold with a value of +11 (base value +2, Conviction +5 and a roll of 4, plus some invoked aspects or something). That should keep Kalshazzak out.

2. Harry tapping a thunderstorm: Here I'm not sure. Basically, I would say it's an evocation with an invoked aspect, but the rules say no other power source can be used for an evocation. It also cannot be thaumaturgy, because thaumaturgy isn't fast enough to be used in a fight.

So, how would you handle these situations?

[Belial666]

Tap Natural Disaster: 6 shift spirit evocation, requires a natural disaster; by drawing on the immense energy of a natural disaster such as a storm, earthquake or volcano, you apply two sticky aspects to yourself. Effectively, you link with the natural disaster using your magic in order to draw more power for your spells. Unfortunately, using natural disasters is not easy both because they don't come very often and because aspects applied in this way are always colored by the type of energy you used and may have destructive consequences.

That's from my ritual magic guide but it can also be used in evocation. I also explain there how Harry binds the Erlking and other such big or rapid rituals that simply following the standard instructions make them impossible.

[Wyldfire]

I figured that scene represented 2 evocations, in effect...

1- an Air or Earth evocation to cause a channel of ionized air up into the storm (effectively a lightning rod), and

2- another Air or Earth Evocation to make Harry a "Superconductor" (for the purposes of the strike), able to channel the strike in the direction he wished.

Admittedly, a crude explanation (I'm still familiarizing myself with the rules, so bear with me).

Opinions?

[wyvern]

On YS294 there's a spell that looks almost exactly like what you're trying to do: Grasping Branches, which uses an invocation or tag on an existing scene aspect to achieve higher-than-normal levels of power.

Also, on YS289, there's a bit on temporary access to sponsored magic.  A major storm could be thematically similar to a ley-line in terms of available power - though you'd need to figure out what sort of compel you'd throw at the resulting point of sponsor debt...

edit: Oh, right, and the question on magic circles.  I'd suggest doing some searching (google, with options set to limit its scope to this site would probably be better than the forum's built in search engine) as this question has come up before.  The short answer is that (depending on GM), magic circles seem to be plot devices - magic, and thus magically animated ectoplasm, literally cannot cross them; they function kinda like an infinitely strong threshold - albeit one that can be casually broken by a mortal.  (Breaking a circle would probably require at most a supplemental action; thus why it's not much use against a mortal spellcaster.)

[Bernd]

On YS294 there's a spell that looks almost exactly like what you're trying to do: Grasping Branches, which uses an invocation or tag on an existing scene aspect to achieve higher-than-normal levels of power.

Could you explain how this spell works exactly? Rules-wise? I don't get it right now...

Also, on YS289, there's a bit on temporary access to sponsored magic.  A major storm could be thematically similar to a ley-line in terms of available power - though you'd need to figure out what sort of compel you'd throw at the resulting point of sponsor debt...

That's my problem. I thought about sponsored magic, but found it difficult to see a thunderstorm as a "(semi-)aware entitiy". I also still have problems with Ley-Lines and places of power, in terms of sponsored magic.

edit: Oh, right, and the question on magic circles.  I'd suggest doing some searching (google, with options set to limit its scope to this site would probably be better than the forum's built in search engine) as this question has come up before.  The short answer is that (depending on GM), magic circles seem to be plot devices - magic, and thus magically animated ectoplasm, literally cannot cross them; they function kinda like an infinitely strong threshold - albeit one that can be casually broken by a mortal.  (Breaking a circle would probably require at most a supplemental action; thus why it's not much use against a mortal spellcaster.)

I found that, but one of my players suggested that it could be a ward, which was prepared beforehand and had just to be activated. I still tend to thresholds, but I wanted to hear other possible solutions (for that specific situation) and gave just mine as inspiration.

EDIT: I just came up with another solution for the thunderstorm: A counterspell. The thunderstorm is treated like a spell against Harry (probably with a power of at least 10, with a maximum of 25, which is the power that is necessary to kill someone) and he redireted it like a spell. He would have to make a maneuver to create an appropriate aspect and then tag it to redirect it. Would that work?

[wyvern]

The grasping branches is, at base, a straightforward weapon: 7 evocation.  Call up 7 shifts of power, roll to control.  However, on the control roll, you're spending a fate point to invoke the scene aspect "nearby tree" - for a +2 bonus on your control.  You could, of course, cast the same spell without the invoke, if you had a high enough discipline + control specializations + focus item bonuses to go without.

As to sponsor debt: Maybe the thunderstorm per se isn't a semi-aware entity, but it's still got a (largely destructive) agenda to it.  Maybe the compel comes immediately in the form of not letting the player accept a concession that doesn't involve killing the targetted foe.  Maybe the compel comes in the form of a lightning strike taking out power to the PCs home.  Maybe it comes a few minutes later when the PC is trying to cast something and there's just too much running water around.  Or maybe it doesn't show up until, sometime in the middle of next game session, the local Thunderbird spirit asks the PC to pay off the favor...

Similar things go with ley-lines; there should be a definite agenda to it - for example, a ley line following an active fault might have an agenda of motion, with compels relating to being unable to *stop* moving when you needed to, or compels involving the earth softening into inconvenient quicksand...  If it helps you, make up a face for the place; a spirit tied to the location's power, with its own goals and desires (like

(click to show/hide)

Demonreach wanting intruders to just go away

).

[Bernd]

The grasping branches is, at base, a straightforward weapon: 7 evocation.  Call up 7 shifts of power, roll to control.  However, on the control roll, you're spending a fate point to invoke the scene aspect "nearby tree" - for a +2 bonus on your control.  You could, of course, cast the same spell without the invoke, if you had a high enough discipline + control specializations + focus item bonuses to go without.

Does that happen in two exchanges? First, invoke the aspect "Nearby Tree" in order to create an animated tree (Maneuver to create the aspect "Arboreal Servant"). Second, tag the aspect "Arboreal Servant" for the Discipline roll as an attack.

The alternative would be everything in one exchange, but how can cast a spell to animate the tree and then tag he new aspect and make an attack in one exchange?

As to sponsor debt: Maybe the thunderstorm per se isn't a semi-aware entity, but it's still got a (largely destructive) agenda to it.  Maybe the compel comes immediately in the form of not letting the player accept a concession that doesn't involve killing the targetted foe.  Maybe the compel comes in the form of a lightning strike taking out power to the PCs home.  Maybe it comes a few minutes later when the PC is trying to cast something and there's just too much running water around.  Or maybe it doesn't show up until, sometime in the middle of next game session, the local Thunderbird spirit asks the PC to pay off the favor...

Similar things go with ley-lines; there should be a definite agenda to it - for example, a ley line following an active fault might have an agenda of motion, with compels relating to being unable to *stop* moving when you needed to, or compels involving the earth softening into inconvenient quicksand...  If it helps you, make up a face for the place; a spirit tied to the location's power, with its own goals and desires (like

(click to show/hide)

Demonreach wanting intruders to just go away

).

Thanks! That helps a lot.

[wyvern]

It's one exchange if you're spending a fate point to invoke the aspect.

Two if you don't have a fate point to spare and need to declare the aspect so you can get a free tag on it (though that declaration could, for example, have come prior to combat start, if you were picking your ground for a fight ahead of time.)

[Tsunami]

It's one exchange if you're spending a fate point to invoke the aspect.

Two if you don't have a fate point to spare and need to declare the aspect so you can get a free tag on it (though that declaration could, for example, have come prior to combat start, if you were picking your ground for a fight ahead of time.)

Wrong, it's one exchange.

Declaring does not take inGame-time. it's not an action done by the character. It's a player action that utilizes a characters skills to resolve.

If you create the aspect to tag by means of a maneuver... then it's two exchanges.

If you assess the aspect as a supplemental action, then it's still one exchange, but at -1 due to said supplemental action.

Does that happen in two exchanges? First, invoke the aspect "Nearby Tree" in order to create an animated tree (Maneuver to create the aspect "Arboreal Servant"). Second, tag the aspect "Arboreal Servant" for the Discipline roll as an attack.

The alternative would be everything in one exchange, but how can cast a spell to animate the tree and then tag he new aspect and make an attack in one exchange?

All this stuff about creating one aspect, and creating the arboreal servant and so on... it's really only description.
The effect of the spell is an attack. That attack takes the form of "an animated tree hitting the target". And an aspect might be tagged or invoked to enhance the control roll jujst like on any other evocation.

So like wyvern said, its a straightforward attack evocation, and thats one exchange, no matter how strange the description.

[wyvern]

Hm.  You are correct; declarations do appear to function instantly.

I don't see anything that would let you do an assessment as a supplemental action, though; the description of assessments is that it's a way to prepare for a scene in advance, and that doing that takes some time.  (Now, maybe I just missed something in the rulebook somewhere, but there's certainly nothing in the main text of assessments for doing them as supplemental actions.)

[finnmckool]

His magic circle is literally just a block spell. No need to do anything fancy. But instead of evocation it's like a giant focus or enchanted item so it can hold more mojo, since it's made of permanent materials in a permanent setting (bronze in concrete). In fact Harry upgrades it later adding in more precious metals and having some fae artisans (some crazy ass word I can't recall at the moment that starts with "s") work it up to be even stronger still.