Please help me price this Catch

[SaintAndSinner]

Toughness/Recovery doesn't work against living mortal flesh.  Like a punch from a human (even magically/power enhanced).  +1, +2, or +3?

[luminos]

Materials are common, so a +2 for that.  Anything more depends on how easy you want the catch to be to research.

[SaintAndSinner]

I think that sounds about right.  It's for a Hulk-ish character (cursed with a Spirit of Rage).  I want something that's limiting enough to get him under 8 refresh but not eliminate his effectiveness completely. 

Thanks

[Belial666]

It's +2 for availability (everyone can get human flesh in some way), +0 if they have to know you personally to guess it, +1 if it could be researched (i.e. by someone investigating your background), +2 if most people can guess or already know.

So, it's in the +2 to +4 range.

[SaintAndSinner]

So maybe +3 since it won't be that hard to figure out. 

[JosephKell]

So maybe +3 since it won't be that hard to figure out. 

I'ld still say +2 since it is harder to weaponize and synergize with default attack methods.

Sure there are 7 billion people on the planet that can satisfy your catch, but those are still Weapon:0 bypasses.  So the only advantage of not using a sword is that you don't worry about the 2 additional stress boxes.  But a Weapon:3 vs Armor:1 with +2 boxes is about the same as Weapon:0 vs no armor and no extra stress boxes.

The only ones that really satisfy the catch (and still kick butt) are Changelings (think Ogre-kin or Trollblooded), Red Court Infected, Wereform, Lycanthropes, and certain emissaries... You get the idea.  And of them Wereform are the most likely to have a higher Fists than other skill (If you have to choose between a Great Guns and an Average Fists, you go Guns).

[Ophidimancer]

I made a character with basically the same Catch.  Anything from the human body could do it as well, he shrugs off bullets and blades, but if you spit on the blade, then it cuts like normal.  It's from Japanese mythology and he's a kitsune, so I thought it fit.  It was +2 for availability and +1 for researchability for a total of +3.

[Belial666]

@JosephKell:
I disagree. How hard it is to weaponize something has no bearing on the cost of the catch and human flesh is far more easy to weaponize than most things anyway. You have to smelt silver in order to use it most of the time whereas any supernatural creature with enough strength or enough magic can pick up a passing human and bash you with them. Or tear off some human skin and make impromptu punching gloves out of it. Or telekinetically lift a human and smash them against you. And a 100-pound human is going to deal more damage than a 6-pound baseball bat. I'd treat them as weapon 3.

[JosephKell]

@JosephKell:
I disagree. How hard it is to weaponize something has no bearing on the cost of the catch and human flesh is far more easy to weaponize than most things anyway. You have to smelt silver in order to use it most of the time whereas any supernatural creature with enough strength or enough magic can pick up a passing human and bash you with them. Or tear off some human skin and make impromptu punching gloves out of it. Or telekinetically lift a human and smash them against you. And a 100-pound human is going to deal more damage than a 6-pound baseball bat. I'd treat them as weapon 3.

What if someone's catch is an A minor chord (I am not even sure if this is a real thing)?  How do you make that a physical attack?  The ability to weaponize something needs to be factored.

Tearing off flesh to put it on the side of a weapon makes it "no longer living."  Using a person as a club is going to wreck that person pretty darn quickly.

[Ophidimancer]

The ability to weaponize something needs to be factored.

Interesting idea, and not without merit, but still something of a houserule.  According to the book the considerations that factor into a Catch are researchability and accessibility.

[SaintAndSinner]

Would hearing the music or being in touch with living flesh allow another attack through?

[Ophidimancer]

Would hearing the music or being in touch with living flesh allow another attack through?

That would depend, I guess.  The way I described the Catch for my character, the attack itself had ot have the Catch.  The music example, though, may just make you weak as a human, like Kryptonite.

[JosephKell]

Interesting idea, and not without merit, but still something of a houserule.  According to the book the considerations that factor into a Catch are researchability and accessibility.

Three things actually.
1.  Scope (specifically against or all but).
2.  Ease of Access to catch.
3.  Awareness (researchability)

While I do mention the difficulties of weaponizing living mortal flesh, it did not factor into my opinion of a +2 catch value.  On scope, it protects against all but living mortal flesh (+0).  Living Mortal Flesh is very common (+7).  Without knowing where the protection came from, I conclude that this is an effect specific to one individual (+0).

If this person is from an famous order of monks, then yeah I guess there can be some knowledge of it.  But otherwise, how is anyone going to know that a bare fist is the best way to hurt someone?  How often do mortals get into fist fights these days?  Other than bar fights, school, prison, and Hollywood?

Even if you face a lot of mortals, who goes for fists when baseball bats, chains, lead pipes, and axe handles are legal to own?

However, "living human flesh" is a pretty burdensome catch since even the mere presence of the catch is supposed to make a person uncomfortable (triggers compels).  So even if someone took a generous perspective of "other people's living flesh" you basically have a character that doesn't want to make direct physical contact with others.  Hello Mr. Monk.

--------------------

As to the A-Minor chord catch.  Technically the sound would trigger a compel of some sort.  Either costing a fate point to avoid it, forcing retreat, or some sort of psychological break (take out).  Maybe even force you to try to attack the source of the sound.

[Ophidimancer]

However, "living human flesh" is a pretty burdensome catch since even the mere presence of the catch is supposed to make a person uncomfortable (triggers compels).  So even if someone took a generous perspective of "other people's living flesh" you basically have a character that doesn't want to make direct physical contact with others.  Hello Mr. Monk.

Hmm ... this is true and troublesome for my playboy character.  I guess I will have to specify for my character that his Catch is the human body specifically used with intent to harm.  That way he won't flinch away from the touch of his lovers.

[luminos]

Hmm ... this is true and troublesome for my playboy character.  I guess I will have to specify for my character that his Catch is the human body specifically used with intent to harm.  That way he won't flinch away from the touch of his lovers.

sounds like a houserule