Glamours

[CBIrish]

A buddy of mine is playing a Changeling with Glamours and asked me what I felt was a pretty reasonable question - how comprehensive are the Glamours (in terms of the number of senses other than touch [obviously] that they can effect) and how big can they be (could he disguise the appearance of a room or building or are they on a more personal scale)? My cop-out response was that he should work it out with the GM, but it got me thinking - the Veils portion contains a size limit in the description text, but the Seemings part does not.  Does anyone know if there's been any official clarification on this or is there a consensus on how these sorts of matters should be adjudicated?

The one thing I would have liked in this book was a little more clarification on the mechanics of these powers.  But, seeing as how I have all of you lovely people here to help fill in the blanks, I suppose it's not that big of a deal.

[luminos]

Seemings have to be on something personal, something you own, or people that have entered a pact with you.  They won't work on a large scale, it just creates minor illusions.

[wyvern]

Well, it looks like the big limit on seemings is that you can only use it on yourself, things that belong to you, and people you have some degree of mystical hold on (or who have some hold on you - promises work both ways.)
Other than that it's pretty wide open, though as a GM I'd probably add further restrictions - for example, making illusions you put on others fade at dawn, or not allowing you to make a band of 50 mercenaries you hired look like oni; in general, I'd say the maximum mass limits for veils would apply here.  But those are house rules; use or not as you see fit.

This also means that you can't use seemings to make nothing look like something; there *has* to be a core item or person there for you to modify.
So, no using seemings to make illusory monsters out of nothing.  But you could use it to make your partner look just like that guard you knocked out and dragged off into the forest...

As for what senses it can include - I would actually say it *can* include touch - somewhat.  You can make silk feel like sharkskin (or vice versa, though people would get to realize something was off when the silk 'bit' them...); what you cannot do with mere glamours is create force where there was none.  So if you disguise yourself to look like an ancient samurai, complete with armor and sword, it'll all seem real enough (as long as you've got some physical item to form a core for the "sword" - perhaps a stick you picked up in the woods) - until you get into combat, where the "armor" will provide no protection, and the "sword" will be of no more use than a basic club.

Of further note is that, if someone beats your discipline/deceit roll to establish the glamour, they get to know that there's something off about it - but they don't actually get to see through it.  People who are used to D&D in particular should note this difference.  So if you're a shapeshifter using glamours to conceal the fact that you just shifted back and haven't found clothes yet, and someone beats your discipline/deceit roll, they don't suddenly see you naked; they just get to know that, for example, the shadows on your clothing don't match the light sources around you.

[Saedar]

I'm kinda with Luminos on this one. It seems like it would need to be something smaller and personal (or possessed).

Also, I don't know how much material possession matters so much as metaphysical possession.

If you want something larger and more comprehensive, I would go with Thaumaturgy (or Ritual: Photomancy).

[Leatherneck]

Can Seemings be used to completely change the character's appearance and act as an immediate disguise?  "cause someone or something to appear to be other than what it is".  Does that apply to the one with the Glamours power?  The idea was for a changeling to appear as an unmasked Red Court Vampire.

[Bruce Coulson]

Sounds reasonable to me.  I'm not sure why a changeling would WANT to look like an unmasked RCV (trying to pass?), but that sort of trickery is perfectly in keeping with the power.  Mind you, if one of the real RCVs sees through the Glamour, some other rolls might have to be made very quickly...

[Becq]

It's not clear, but my take would be that the object appears to all of an onlooker's senses to be what your Seeming says it is.  Note that it doesn't actually become that thing (unless you us the True Seemings power in Greater Glamours), but their senses will tell them that it is that thing.  If you make a baseball bat look like a sword, then try to skewer someone with it, they might get bruises or even broken ribs rather than stab wounds ... but they will feel as though the sword sliced them.  This contradiction might be a good excuse to give them another opportunity to sense that all is not as it seems (or perhaps you might consider it automatic in this case).  And the RCV option sounds reasonable, as well -- you'd look, feel, etc like a demonic pudgy bat-thing.

As to how much it covers ... for lack of actual rules, I'd use the rules given for Veils.  So it can affect an object up to the size of a small, clustered group of people (or maybe a small car), keeping in mind the limitations on what objects can be affected.