Holy Stuff

[ryanroyce]

Sure, its a passive ability, meaning they don't have to pay fate points (beyond the 1 fate point lost from refresh) to use it.  Thats why I'd say that not having a True Faith template would require you to invoke an aspect to get blessed weapons.  It would be easier to hand wave it for someone with a True Believer template but not Holy Touch, because thats what they've devoted their character to.  Having other characters just be able to do it without cost just makes it a cheap trick, and I'd really resent it if I played a True Believer in a campaign where everyone could do it without paying anything for it.  Maybe you don't have True Believer's in your group, so maybe you can convince your GM to house rule blessed weapons for people who have faith aspects.

 Eh, I just see the True Faith powers as a variant form of Sponsored Magic (or, in this case, Sponsored Powers), where the Will of the Almighty is expressed through them.  That's how things like Bless This House, Guide My Hand, and Righteousness work; you're borrowing some of the Almighty's mojo, which is why they cost Refresh (aka the sacrifice of your own free will) to acquire.  A strong, personal faith in something requires no higher power or even regular church attendance (in fact, Harry mentions this several times [most recently in Changes, p202]).  Or are you suggesting that Harry has a True Faith power?

My character already has the Aspect and I have few qualms about invoking it for effect, I just don't think it's necessary.  I mean, you don't need an Aspect/FP to bypass a Cold Iron catch or a Fire catch, right?  Why is Holy Stuff more special than those Catches?

Also, the sword would not be considered "holy stuff" for anyone but that swordsman (or, I suppose, his retired grandfather), due to the nature of the weapon and what it represents to him.  So, if another PC picked it up and used it, it would be just another Weapon:2 sword.  For an item to be inherently Holy, irregardless of the wielder's own faith, it would require some supernatural mojo (a la the Sword of the Cross).

This... still sounds like a supernatural power.

 It comes close, but no more so than Listening, Devout Words, or Finely Attuned Third Eye do.  IMO, at least.

[luminos]

Consider that if the power of Holy Touch to satisfy catches is not unique, and does not cost fate points or refresh to replicate, then the power effectively only gives weapon: 1 to fists against things repulsive to the faith of the user, which is weaker than a stunt. 

Also, look at the way the catch is calculated for things weak to holy stuff.  These catches tend to be low values, suggesting that holy stuff is something only a vary rare class of people have access to.  Someone who has a faith, even one he strongly believes in, may not be able to produce holy stuff except under extraordinary circumstances (this being an aspect invocation).

And yes, Harry does use his faith to ward off vampires from time to time.  He always does so with his mother silver pentacle, which is why that is one of his aspects, I believe.  I would see him using it that way as an invocation of that aspect.

As to whether the other ability is a supernatural power or not, its really moot unless you are a pure mortal.  If you aren't then it makes no difference if its a -1 power, or a stunt.

[ryanroyce]

Consider that if the power of Holy Touch to satisfy catches is not unique, and does not cost fate points or refresh to replicate, then the power effectively only gives weapon: 1 to fists against things repulsive to the faith of the user, which is weaker than a stunt.

 Nah, being the Catch for things like vamps, demons, ghouls and so on is worth a +1.  It cannot be taken away, and that's a feature this game values.

Also, look at the way the catch is calculated for things weak to holy stuff.  These catches tend to be low values, suggesting that holy stuff is something only a vary rare class of people have access to.  Someone who has a faith, even one he strongly believes in, may not be able to produce holy stuff except under extraordinary circumstances (this being an aspect invocation).

And yes, Harry does use his faith to ward off vampires from time to time.  He always does so with his mother silver pentacle, which is why that is one of his aspects, I believe.  I would see him using it that way as an invocation of that aspect.

 This is a serviceable solution, but what I don't like about it is that there's no allowance for a character's Conviction.  Conviction is the skill that measures the strength of one's beliefs and, by the novels, that's supposed to mean something.  Having an Aspect related to your beliefs is always good, but it shouldn't be required to satisfy any Catch.

 So, how's this... in order to channel one's faith against a creature through a holy object, one must first place a maneuver upon the object using their Conviction as a supplemental action.  If successful, then the object may satisfy a creature's "holy stuff" Catch.  If not... then it's just another trinket and you better have a good Plan B.  A character with Superb Conviction (like Harry and most True Faith characters), will succeed almost every time.  On the other hand, a character with only Fair Conviction (checks book real quick... like Fix or Susan) would need a little bit of luck to succeed.  If you have merely Mediocre Conviction, then you'll need a really lucky roll to pull it off.  Does that sound reasonable?

[Delmorian]

I just got done reading a book called Frost Moon, in this book the main character has tattoos of crosses on each finger of her hand so that she can punch vampires with a holy object. Would such a tactic work in dfrpg.

Depending upon the true Faith of the person. Having a cross as Body Art could be construed as disrespectful, even blasphemous.

However, there is precedent, look at the movie Constantine, when he rolled up his sleeves, and clasped his arms together, the two tattoos on each arm completed a holy symbol or spell. Having it so that you have to perform some action or pose to create the symbol would make it that you can carry the symbol without actually being in constant possession of the symbol. I don't know why, but the concept is more acceptable to me as a GM.