Making Evocation more Complicated

[luminos]

A bit of a preamble before I get started.  I first began this project a while ago with the thought of making Evocation have a more of a D&D feel.  The thought was that I'd make about a billion custom powers for evocation to power up various elements, and create a lot of mechanical differences between the elements.  This original scheme was intended to replace Specialization bonuses with these custom powers.  

This whole idea goes very much against the way magic currently works, and is probably a bit more crunchy than the DFRPG was meant to be.  I'm sure there are several other reasons not to like this idea as well, but its just for fun.  I'm going to post all of the custom evocation powers I've thought of here, and I'd ask anyone else interested to make their own contributions to the list.

(Warning: powers may not be balanced.  In fact, they are all might be a bit overpowered if they can be taken in addition to normal specialization bonuses.)

Fire powers:  
Napalmist - The "On Fire!" aspect from your fire maneuvers will do a 1-stress hit upon a successful hit.  In addition, any fire attack can give the "On Fire!" aspect for an extra 3 shifts in power.
Purifier - You can perform counterspells with fire at +2 power/+2 control

Earth powers:
Crusher - Your earth evocations can be designed to exclusively target the opponents Might.  No athletics dodge available!
Spectrum Bender - Earth evocations can now be used to create veils.  In addition, any veils created using earth has +1 power/+1 control

Water powers:
Entropist- +2 control/+2 power for hexing purposes with water.
Drizzler - The "Soaked" aspect from water maneuvers will put a threshold: 1 effect mimicking running water, as long as the aspect stays on the target.  In addition, any water attack can give the "Soaked" aspect for an extra 3 shifts in power.

Air powers:
Gale Force:  Any wind evocation that is designed to effect or limit movement of your opponents (zone borders, knockback spells, grapples) has +1 control/+1 power
Buffeter:  The "buffeted" aspect from air maneuvers will require the effected person to overcome a zone border of one when moving between zones as long as this aspect is in place.  In addition, any air attack can give the "Buffeted" aspect for an extra 3 shifts in power

Spirit powers:
Dazzler - The "blinded" aspect from spirit maneuvers reduces the effected persons alertness by one as long as the aspect stays in place.  In addition, any spirit attack can give the blinded aspect for an extra 3 shifts of power.
Shroudist - Any veils made from spirit have +2 power/+2 control.


Other idea's I've toyed with include giving each element an inherent vulnerability (like saying fire evocations take extra shifts for making armor) and separating the custom powers into tiers that only be bought following the ladder system (3rd tier power would need a 2nd and 1st tier power, for example).

So thats what I have for now, but more will come up, I'm sure.  Post your own!  Post ideas of what the powers would be in alternative schemes of magic that have different elements!

[Ophidimancer]

Actually, I'm going to run my Avatar: The Last Airbender game using the FATE system.  Bending is going to be a Power that basically enhances one's normal use of Fists, Weapons, Athletics, etc.  Each style will have different benefits: Firebending gets Weapon 1 and ignores 1 point of block, Airbenders get an automatic +1 to Athletics form their Maneuvers and a free overflow shift for movement from their attacks.

[luminos]

That sounds awesome.  What do earthbenders and waterbenders get?

[Doc Nova]

Avatar via Fate.  My daughter would love that!  Any additional notes that could be nabbed?

@luminos:  the concept is a good one.  I like the idea as it is another means of addressing the issue of attacks inflicting damage as well as aspects. I've always liked a trio, so I'd love to see an additional "tier".

[MWKilduff]

Avatar via Fate.  My daughter would love that!  Any additional notes that could be nabbed?

@luminos:  the concept is a good one.  I like the idea as it is another means of addressing the issue of attacks inflicting damage as well as aspects. I've always liked a trio, so I'd love to see an additional "tier".

If you are going to stat this up.  I really would like to throw out some mechanic concerns.  These concerns are only so I can snatch the idea for my game.  OK so here it goes.  I would state that you can either pick only 1 of these bender paths fire, air, water, or earth; or if you want to stick with the pyramid system like they are bonuses through refinement you can build up to truly impressive levels of coolness in each but must focus on an element.  This all means I request a minimum of 3 levels of bender powers for each element.  I hope this gives everyone some ideas and does not slow you down.

[luminos]

Re: tiers.  I'll probably sort everything I have into tiers (3 or 4) once I have about 10 powers for every element.  Then I'll do inherent limitations, and "Master" level powers, like Fire Immunity for someone that maxes out on the fire powers.  And maybe "combination" powers that give effects based on what combination of elements you have access to.

Formatting note:  From now on I'll represent control and power bonuses as +(power bonus)/+(control bonus)

Fire:
Exploder - Zone attacks with fire have +2/+2
Lancer (based on Luccio's laser like attacks) - the first shift of power in fire spray attacks gets applied to all targets of the spray attack.  It does not have to be split up and assigned to a specific target like the other shifts of power do in spray attacks.

Water:
Streamist - Gives the option of making thresholds of running water across zone borders using water evocations.  These evocations are considered blocks.  Shifts can go towards increasing duration, strength of the threshold effect, and number of zones effected.
Water-repellent - Allows the wizard to ignore up to two points of threshold value for thresholds created by running water.

Earth:
Grinder - Earth grapple attacks have +2/+2
Stone-skinned - Earth armor effects (but not regular blocks) have +2/+2

Air:
Breezer (thanks Ophidimancer for inspiration) - moving one zone counts as a free action when using air evocations.  Moving two is supplemental.
Guster - spray attacks with air have +2/+2

Spirit:
Mentalist - Spirit can be used to attack the mental stress track, and has +1/+1 when doing so.  Lawbreaker is highly likely for using this.  
Bracer - Normal blocks (but not armor) with spirit have +2/+2

[JosephKell]

Spirit:
Mentalist - Spirit can be used to attack the mental stress track, and has +1/+1 when doing so.  Lawbreaker is highly likely for using this.  

Even at a power penalty (and no control bonus), this is really good (especially if no other elements are allowed to make mental attacks at all).  I would include in it explicitly what skill is rolled to resist (maybe allow Discipline or Conviction).

I view this more as a "brain overload" rather than a "brain rewrite" so I am not sure if it is a mind violation (you aren't reading and you aren't making them do anything permanent, unless you inflict an extreme consequence--brain damage?).  I think it would also be appropriate for Spirit to be better at "mental blocks."

But how are these abilities "purchased"?  Are they like "take a refinement and get 1?"  In that case Exploder is just way too good (even if it uses all specialization slots granted from 1 refinement), it basically says "Fire Zone attacks cost 2 shifts of power, but you get +2 power to compensate, and give +2 control."  Granted you have to do a zone to get it, but assuming this stacks with other specializations it is even better.  Normally to get the equivalent from specializations requires Fire Power +2 and Control +2 (which means you have at least 2 specializations at +1).  And again if it stacks with existing specializations then a character with Fire Power +2 and Fire Control +1 is getting +4 control on zone attacks.  Even just giving "Fire Attacks may be upgraded to zones at no cost" for -1 refresh is good since it basically means that fire zones get a virtual +2 power (that stacks with specializations, while not adding to the pyramid's top weight).

It occurred to me that maybe instead there could just be more "buy upgrades."

Like you basically outlined a "it costs 3 shifts to add a non-sticky temporary aspect related to the element."  Maybe allow additional shifts of power for more stickiness.  The only balance concern is that this makes practitioners even stronger as they can apply an aspect AND attack in one action

What about a 2 shift exchange that lets you change the resist trapping (as long as it is related).  Like air might target endurance as you pull the air from their lungs, water attacks might as it tries to knock the target over.

2 shifts to attack mental stress (again, maybe just allow spirit to do so, or charge more for other elements).  Alternatively make it cost 1 shift for spirit and 3 for any other element.  In that case I would probably charge Spirit more for Zone attacks (like 3 shifts).

2 shifts for the option to knock a target 1 zone seems balanced (I think before I talked about starting at 1, then increasing the cost by 1 more for each additional zone; 1 zone = 1 shift, 2 zones = 3 shifts, 3 zones = 6 shifts, 4 zones = 10 shifts, etc.)

[luminos]

But how are these abilities "purchased"?  Are they like "take a refinement and get 1?"  In that case Exploder is just way too good (even if it uses all specialization slots granted from 1 refinement), it basically says "Fire Zone attacks cost 2 shifts of power, but you get +2 power to compensate, and give +2 control."  Granted you have to do a zone to get it, but assuming this stacks with other specializations it is even better.  Normally to get the equivalent from specializations requires Fire Power +2 and Control +2 (which means you have at least 2 specializations at +1).  And again if it stacks with existing specializations then a character with Fire Power +2 and Fire Control +1 is getting +4 control on zone attacks.  Even just giving "Fire Attacks may be upgraded to zones at no cost" for -1 refresh is good since it basically means that fire zones get a virtual +2 power (that stacks with specializations, while not adding to the pyramid's top weight).

This is a valid concern.  Some of these abilities are definitely overpowered for -1 refresh if they can be taken in addition to specializations.  My original thought for this is to have them completely replace specializations, so that you can't abuse things that way.  An additional idea I had to go with it is to categorize these powers into tiers, and that you had to follow the pyramid structure for how many powers you can get in a certain tier, i.e. 2 tier 1 powers for 1 tier 2 power and so on.  This would require a butload of powers.  Of course, there is a reason why my original title for this thread was "Lets make evocation way more complicated than it has to be".

It occurred to me that maybe instead there could just be more "buy upgrades."

Like you basically outlined a "it costs 3 shifts to add a non-sticky temporary aspect related to the element."  Maybe allow additional shifts of power for more stickiness.  The only balance concern is that this makes practitioners even stronger as they can apply an aspect AND attack in one action

What about a 2 shift exchange that lets you change the resist trapping (as long as it is related).  Like air might target endurance as you pull the air from their lungs, water attacks might as it tries to knock the target over.

2 shifts to attack mental stress (again, maybe just allow spirit to do so, or charge more for other elements).  Alternatively make it cost 1 shift for spirit and 3 for any other element.  In that case I would probably charge Spirit more for Zone attacks (like 3 shifts).

2 shifts for the option to knock a target 1 zone seems balanced (I think before I talked about starting at 1, then increasing the cost by 1 more for each additional zone; 1 zone = 1 shift, 2 zones = 3 shifts, 3 zones = 6 shifts, 4 zones = 10 shifts, etc.)

All of these sound like good suggestions.  I first started working on these custom power ideas before I realized how powerful magic was, so I am concerned that this alternate system will just make an already powerful ability even more so.  My true objective is to make quantitative differences between the elements, that become more pronounced the more powerful someone gets in that particular element, so that it becomes more than just different flavors of the same thing.  Anyways, thanks for all the thoughts.