Changling Character

[Doc Nova]

I wouldn't mind the storing of fate points, really.  However, a character with such potent powers who is toeing that mortal/"monster" line is going to be facing a ton of compels to accumulate those fate points...and compels aren't meant to leave the character unscathed or with the lack of temptation.  In fact, it would be my presumption that the goal, RP-wise, behind such a character is to portray that "razor's edge" in the first place.  If the player were, and I am in no way implying this was your intention, simply looking for a means to outfit their character with incredible power and no repercussions then there would be a problem, at least thematically.  

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Half the fun of a Red Court Infected, like Susan, is watching that struggle and knowing that, at any moment, they could...and likely will..."tip".

[CMEast]

Um - The point of fate points is the ability to effect the flow of plot, by effectively limiting there ability to keep a decent amount at any one time to me is more along the lines of pushing the players onto a script then having it as a roleplay where the ending is not fixed.By doing that, it makes the GM more of an author in a book with a single forethought conclusion then a true collaborative process which to me is a major no-no as that goes against the very spirit of the FATE system.

Fair enough, that's not quite how I see it but I see what you're saying. To me a Fate point is a useful roleplay tool, both for the GM and for the player. The more fate points people have, the less motivated they will be to play as there character would, self-compelling themselves becomes less important and it becomes the GM's job to force them to play the role when it becomes inconvenient to them.

In the same way, if a player is sitting on a small pile of fate points he can enter each conflict safe in the knowledge that he can handle most situations by invoking an aspect or two. A +2 bonus or a declaration is a powerful ability in this game and while I want them to use it, I want it to be valuable. With spare fate points, situations become less about suspenseful drama and more about over-the-top conflicts where people abuse their aspects as much as possible.

[luminos]

In the same way, if a player is sitting on a small pile of fate points he can enter each conflict safe in the knowledge that he can handle most situations by invoking an aspect or two. A +2 bonus or a declaration is a powerful ability in this game and while I want them to use it, I want it to be valuable. With spare fate points, situations become less about suspenseful drama and more about over-the-top conflicts where people abuse their aspects as much as possible.

And the way to avoid it becoming like that is to make the compels offered to a player have real bite, that they represent a significant choice that will have repercussions if accepted.  Self-compels, by the way, don't work any differently than regular compels except that they are initiated by the player.  So saying that the character will get a lot of fate points through self compels is assuming that he is going to put him at a huge disadvantage by doing so.

[Arcteryx]

In the same way, if a player is sitting on a small pile of fate points he can enter each conflict safe in the knowledge that he can handle most situations by invoking an aspect or two. A +2 bonus or a declaration is a powerful ability in this game and while I want them to use it, I want it to be valuable. With spare fate points, situations become less about suspenseful drama and more about over-the-top conflicts where people abuse their aspects as much as possible.

I still don't get that... The key word in fate point economy is economy. Supply...and demand.

GM <evil maniacal laughter: MOUAHAHAHAHA!>: create demand
Players self-compelling or begging for compels: provide supply

If players are sitting on a vault full of fate points... GM, crank that dial from Easy to Hard and give them chances to burn them up and turn those stories into their own with aspects coming into play.

[CMEast]

Exactly Luminos. A huge disadvantage. And invocations are a huge advantage. Which is why they shouldn't be spent like crazy, they are valuable resources.

[Ophidimancer]

The more fate points people have, the less motivated they will be to play as there character would, self-compelling themselves becomes less important and it becomes the GM's job to force them to play the role when it becomes inconvenient to them.

I don't quite agree with this.

With spare fate points, situations become less about suspenseful drama and more about over-the-top conflicts where people abuse their aspects as much as possible.

Invoking Aspects is not abuse, and neither is it acting out of character.  In order to Invoke an Aspect, one needs to be able to act in a way the Aspect suggests.  Invoking an Aspect is acting in character, it's acting in character in a way that helps the character just like accepting a Compel is acting in character in a way that causes complications.  Any time you use an Aspect you are enforcing the character concept.

[John Galt]

Greater glamours is not for PCs.  Period.  Pure Fae only.  For a REALLY good reason.  The subject of compels and fate points is moot IMO.  Any GM that allows this with a PC isn't doing his job.

Tbora - I understand your obsession with making the most broken PCs possible so you can play them in your own campaigns and I know I gave you this idea, but I draw the line at this much blatant stretching of the rules.  If you want to play this character in your epic campaign,  I'm dropping out.

[CMEast]

Invoking Aspects is not abuse, and neither is it acting out of character.  In order to Invoke an Aspect, one needs to be able to act in a way the Aspect suggests.  Invoking an Aspect is acting in character, it's acting in character in a way that helps the character just like accepting a Compel is acting in character in a way that causes complications.  Any time you use an Aspect you are enforcing the character concept.

Well true, I'm over-stating the case a little bit. I simply mean that I prefer a slightly stingy approach where invocations and compels make a large difference to the game, over a generous approach where fate points fly back and forth and people spend them like mad.

Plus, my own opinion is largely irrelevant until I'm the GM behind the wheel, as it happens I'm playing in one real life campaign and waiting for the Roswell PbP game to begin and I certainly wouldn't complain if I ended up with a ton of fate points in either game In the real life game the GM is super stingy; even more than I, he believes that roleplay is the important part of the game and so doesn't reward it with fate points at all unless he's slapping us with something particularly nasty. It's going smoothly though and is lots of fun

[Tbora]

Greater glamours is not for PCs.  Period.  Pure Fae only.  For a REALLY good reason.  The subject of compels and fate points is moot IMO.  Any GM that allows this with a PC isn't doing his job.

Tbora - I understand your obsession with making the most broken PCs possible so you can play them in your own campaigns and I know I gave you this idea, but I draw the line at this much blatant stretching of the rules.  If you want to play this character in your epic campaign,  I'm dropping out.

My response in a number of bullet points:

A) This is for a Submerged game as the original clearly stated - so you don't have to "worry" about it.
B) Yes I did get this idea from you, and for that I thank you as I still think its pretty cool.
C) The term "Broken" can only be applied if the opposition is a weaker opposing force which equals blandness and no challenge.
D) I respect you Galt as a person, but if you cannot refrain from base rudeness I am not sure I want you in any game of mine.That is not to say I am giving you the boot now, but if you cannot be civil, you will force my hand.

[Deadmanwalking]

But anyway for this character I have atleast a couple aspects in mind to generate fate points like no tommorow - A Trouble of "I cannot say what is untrue" and an aspect "Iron is my Bane".Both of which will be self compelled very often.

This is actually completely unnecessary (the Iron at least)...both of these are explicitly available as Compels on the High Concept of any Changeling. Re-read the Changeling template.


Others are also technically correct when they say that Greater Glamours are flat-out not allowed on PCs. I probably wouldn't allow it, either.

[Tbora]

This is actually completely unnecessary (the Iron at least)...both of these are explicitly available as Compels on the High Concept of any Changeling. Re-read the Changeling template.

Thanks for that Deadman, I did not know that, much appreciated

[Doc Nova]

After re-reading the power, I would have to agree with others on Greater Glamours being out of reach of PCs...it's an incredibly potent power.  Granted a great deal of what it can do can be mirrored with spells, however the bonuses and ease of zone effects, not to mention the relatively easy means to just create stuff (including creatures) out of thin air combine for something that I, personally, would have great difficulty in allowing for a PC to possess it.  If you wanted to accomplish much of the same thing, I'd suggest taking Channeling (for the veils and such) and Rituals (for the ectoplasmic creations).

However, if it works for you in your game, really that's all that matters, just beware of the can of worms such power opens and the realms it opens for other players to potentially desire (and rightly so, so they aren't over-shadowed or made to feel secondary).

Alternatively, if the refresh cost were significantly increased for PC utilization, maybe with an additional limiter or two (perhaps something akin to Feeding Dependency linked to it), then...at a stretch...maybe.  But for 4 points it provides far more than I would ever be comfortable with as a GM.

[Tbora]

The Part I care for is the "Veils" section of the power, nothing else in regards to the true seemings and the like.

How would you feel about a -2 Power called Faery Veils, which is basically that trapping as a stand alone power?

[luminos]

If thats all you want, just take the regular glamours power.  If you just have to have the +2 to veils, make it an inbetween power at -3 refresh.

[Tbora]

If thats all you want, just take the regular glamours power.  If you just have to have the +2 to veils, make it an inbetween power at -3 refresh.

Thanks for the suggestion Lumi, will do.