Custom Power List

[gojj]

While it is a +1 buff to everyone, the corresponding attack will still be lower in practice. For the buff to take place, the user's Fist or Weapons would need to be 4 or lower, so even after the buff they're attack will only be starting at a maximum of 5 (assuming Superb skill caps). I do understand wanting your enemy's Alertness to be a factor, but I think it is a much larger buff than it appears. How often does the enemy have an Alertness at or above their highest attacking skill? The GM could certainly create an NPC that does in order for the confrontation to be more difficult for the Stealth user, but it would still be an advantage against the vast majority of the generic templates.

Another option is to do away with it affecting attacks entirely. It could offer a +2 to stealth based maneuvers, resisted by your target's Alertness. Or once per scene, you can replace any skill roll with Stealth (provided sufficient justification).

Honestly, I don't think it is that big of a deal one way or the other. If you feel that the modifying Alertness is the better way to go then I don't have any problems with it. It is a very cool power overall and I can imagine a lot of character concepts that could utilize this. Time will tell what portions are over/underpowered.

[Sanctaphrax]

While it is a +1 buff to everyone, the corresponding attack will still be lower in practice. For the buff to take place, the user's Fist or Weapons would need to be 4 or lower, so even after the buff they're attack will only be starting at a maximum of 5 (assuming Superb skill caps). I do understand wanting your enemy's Alertness to be a factor, but I think it is a much larger buff than it appears. How often does the enemy have an Alertness at or above their highest attacking skill?

Maybe 10-20% of the time? It'll depend on the GM and the game style, of course, but most monsters have their attack skills near the top of their skill tree. I suspect stealthy characters will fight perceptive ones more often, since they can just sneak by low-Alertness goons...but who knows.

Anyway, the issue I take with your version of the attack trapping isn't that it's too powerful. It's that it's dull. It's just +1 to hit.

So, with that in mind, what do you think of this revised version?

SUPERNATURAL STEALTH [-2]
Description: You are supernaturally stealthy. Seriously, what did you expect?
Skills Affected: Stealth.
Effects:
Imperceptible. Your Stealth is never penalized due to movement, cover, or environmental conditions. You may hide just as effectively while running through a bright hallway as while lurking in a shadowy corner.
Hard To See, Hard To Hit. You may use Stealth to defend against physical attacks. When dodging this way you may add Athletics bonuses from Speed Powers to your Stealth skill. However, you may not use Stealth bonuses from Cloak of Shadows or other similar abilities. Alertness modifies the relevant skills of characters who attack you while you are defending this way.
Perfectly Consistent. When you roll your Stealth skill for hiding, skulking, or sneaking, any roll of -2 or less counts as a roll of -1.
Invisible Attacks [-1]. When you make a physical attack, your target's Alertness restricts whatever skill they use to defend.
Superior Supernatural Stealth [-1]. When you roll your Stealth skill for hiding, skulking, or sneaking, any roll of 0 or less counts as a roll of +1.

[Hick Jr]

I liked the original Perfectly Consistent because it provided non-spellcasters with the kind of powerful, consistent stealth that you normally need a veil for, but the rewrite looks good.

[gojj]

Looks good. Hopefully someone decides to use it and can report back with their experience with it.

[Hick Jr]

So I realized the other day that I build a ton of characters who have one or both of the full spellcasting powers (Evocation or Thaumaturgy) but tend to only use one element or specialty for thematic purposes. Technically speaking, i'm shooting myself in the foot. The pyramid requires that being really good at Earth magic requires you to also be pretty good at, say, Spirit magic. You can just ignore your non-peak elements/specialties, but then why have them at all?

So, to that end, I'm proposing a custom power along the lines of Limitation, but specifically for Evocation and Thaumaturgy. You pick one Evocation element/Thaumaturgy type, whose power/complexity and control are always at the top of your specializations pyramid. The specialization bonuses below the peak are left blank, and count towards nothing. In exchange for only being good at one type of spellcasting but paying the same amount of Refresh in Refinements as someone who's good at a lot of types, you gain 1/4 of your Refresh spent in Refinements back.

It sounds pretty powerful even to me, so I'd appreciate some second opinions before I actually start hammering it out.

[gojj]

I think specialization is already handled with aspects and just how someone plays a character. I think Wizards (or even Focused Practitioners) are already extremely strong and versatile without allowing them to min/max even more.

[Sanctaphrax]

I would be dubious about the balance of that. The pyramid is pretty important for keeping the power of highly-skilled wizards under control. And a 25% rebate isn't huge, but it's meaningful.

2 Refresh normally gets you 2 Refinements, which gives you something like +1 earth power, +1 earth control, +1 spirit power, +2 spirit control.

With this, 2 Refresh could get you 3 Refinements. That could give you +2 spirit power, +3 spirit control, and half a Refinement left over. Same number of pluses, but more efficiently concentrated. (Plus there's the extra half-Refinement, but I'm not sure if there's any way to actually spend it.)

You could also get 7 Refinements for the price of 5. That's enough to get you +4 power and +5 control for your chosen element, when without the rebate you'd be stuck with a +1/+1/+2/+3/+4 spread. Trading in two +1s and a +2 to move your actually-important specializations up a notch seems like a really good deal to me.

[Hick Jr]

I'm not saying it would do away with the pyramid, I'm just saying you'd get more Refinements to throw around in exchange for loss of versatility.

This mostly came about because being forced to play a "focused practitioner" as only being good at pyromancy when in fact they had like +3 power and control to geomancy was starting to annoy me.


I crunched some numbers on this, and you never really seem to gain more than a shift or two towards your "focus" versus just having a full pyramid. Take a look at the specialization pyramid of Crash Burntown, pyromancer, who's spent 8 Refinements.

+1 Earth Control, +2 Spirit Power, +3 Spirit Control, +4 Fire Control, +5 Fire Power

He's got half a Refinement left, which he presumably puts into a focus item or an enchanted item. Whatever. Now, Mr. Burntown takes the Power, and subsequently gains 10 Refinements for the price of 8 in exchange for being terrible at everything that isn't fire magic. His pyramid looks like this.

+1---, +2---, +3---, +4---, +5 Fire Control, +6 Fire Power

He has two Refinements left over, which he presumably puts into focus or enchanted items. Crash is now a much stronger pyromancer, at the price of only being good at pyromancy.


Also, I just realized there's at least one character in the series who becomes much easier to model if this power exists- Mortimer Lindquist. He has Ritual:Ectomancy in pretty much all his writeups, which is straight up worse than just Thaumaturgy, but he's repeatedly described as stomping all over Harry when it comes to his area of expertise.

[Sanctaphrax]

Gah. I almost edited your post instead of replying to it. Still not used to being a mod.

I'm not saying it would do away with the pyramid, I'm just saying you'd get more Refinements to throw around in exchange for loss of versatility.

Yeah, I know. The numbers I gave took that into account.

If you're looking to test the balance of this power, don't look at someone with 8 Refinements. Look at someone with 2. It's a much more common situation.

Plus, you want to look at the worst-case scenario when assessing balance. This power is strongest at low levels.

[Hick Jr]

Gah. I almost edited your post instead of replying to it. Still not used to being a mod.

Sanctaphrax is now suffering Compels from his new mantle.

Yeah, I know. The numbers I gave took that into account.

If you're looking to test the balance of this power, don't look at someone with 8 Refinements. Look at someone with 2. It's a much more common situation.

Plus, you want to look at the worst-case scenario when assessing balance. This power is strongest at low levels.

Hm. I guess you'd get an extra Refinement, assuming you round up, which I typically don't. Which is a holdover habit from D&D 3.5.

Okay, so Arnie the Teenage Thaumaturge takes two Refinements, and his pyramid looks like this.

+1 Conjuration Complexity, +1 Technomancy Control, +2 Technomancy Complexity

Now we look at Arnie the Teenage Technomancer, who is apparently getting 3 Refinements, and his pyramid looks like this.

+1 ---, +2 Technomancy Control, +3 Technomancy Complexity.


You still average only one extra shift. Which is more powerful at lower Refresh, admittedly, but I'm not seeing how it's devastating to game balance. Could you provide me with an example? I sort of feel like I'm calculating this incorrectly.

[Sanctaphrax]

Every shift counts, and on a character with a few Refinements this Power is borderline mandatory.

It's not devastating, but it's bad.

[MadAlchemist]

@Hick Jr.
Given access to this power I could completely break the balance of a low power game.  At "up to your waist" starting with 7 refresh you can pull a full extra refinement from the limitation.
If I particularly felt like being mean to my GM I would make a Spirit caster so I never need another element. Get 4 Refinement + Evocation for 6 refresh then only spend one of those refinements on the blank refinement. Double the crack if you are playing a high refresh game. All without giving up anything concrete, I can still do everything base Evocation can do.
I'd say you are better off going with one of the Superior_____ sponsored magics, skipping evocation entirely, with your specializations put into thaumaturgy then Evo-Thauming to blast. No wasted anything.

[Sanctaphrax]

Posting these here for easy reference:

(click to show/hide)

INHUMAN SKILL [-2]
Description:
Skills Affected: Weapons.
Effects:
Master Of War. Add 1 to your Weapons skill for attacking and defending. Your Weapons attacks inflict +1 stress. These bonuses do not stack with stunts or with True Aim.
Deflect Arrows. As long as you are armed, you may use your Weapons skill to defend against ranged attacks with arrows, thrown weapons, and other physical projectiles that are slow enough to see.
Strike Like The Wind. You may make spray attacks with your Weapons skill. You never suffer a -1 penalty from drawing a weapon as a supplemental action.
Attuned To The Weapon. Your Weapons skill is treated as infinite for the purpose of modifying other skills.

(click to show/hide)

SUPERNATURAL SKILL [-4]
Description:
Skills Affected: Weapons.
Effects:
Lord Of War. Add 2 to your Weapons skill for attacking and defending. Your Weapons attacks inflict +2 stress. These bonuses do not stack with stunts or with True Aim.
Parry Everything. As long as you are armed, you may use your Weapons skill to defend against any attack that could be dodged with Athletics.
Strike Like Lightning. You may make spray attacks and zone-wide attacks with your Weapons skill. You never suffer a -1 penalty from drawing a weapon as a supplemental action. You don't hurt yourself when attacking your own zone.
One With The Weapon. Your Weapons skill is treated as infinite for the purpose of modifying other skills. Your other skills are treated as infinite for the purpose of modifying your Weapons skill.

(click to show/hide)

MYTHIC SKILL [-6]
Description:
Skills Affected: Weapons.
Effects:
God Of War. Add 3 to your Weapons skill for attacking and defending. Your Weapons attacks inflict +3 stress. These bonuses do not stack with stunts or with True Aim.
Perfect Defence. You may use your Weapons skill to defend against any attack that could be dodged with Athletics.
Strike Like The Sunlight. You may make spray attacks and zone-wide attacks with your Weapons skill. You never suffer a -1 penalty from drawing a weapon as a supplemental action. You may choose which characters to affect when attacking a zone, and when you combine a zone attack with a supplemental move you may attack every zone that you move through.
Living Weapon. Your Weapons skill is treated as infinite for the purpose of modifying other skills. Your other skills are treated as infinite for the purpose of modifying your Weapons skill. As long as you are alive, weapons that you are wielding cannot break and you cannot be disarmed against your will. You may attack unarmed with your Weapons skill.

[Taran]

I know you put these here for bookkeeping but I thought I'd mention: having seen these in action...I find them a bit OP...

[ways and means]

I don't feel my character has been massively effective with them. The 10 refresh wizard I am playing Manema probably could have ended our current fight already.