This is why the Council is Afraid of Harry Dresden (Spoilers)

[ItsallSuesfault]

Could we add Sanctum Invocation of Demonreach/Dresden's Version of Arkham Asylum.

[robertltux]

needs an edit

NOTICE OF BANNED AREA Please note the island on lake Michigan (aka DemonReach Island) CAN NOT BE APPROACHED Do not under any circumstances or means approach the island. This island has been claimed by Harry Dresden as a sanctuary and will result in the death of any persons not invited to the island. Magenta security level holders please reference file 29[alpha]773[delta] for further details.

[qazwerty99]

Love how it says "encounter with X [Deceased]" on ten separate occasions.

[Quantus]

Random Physics Nitpick:  His rings store "Kinetic" energy, not potential energy. 

[Mr. Death]

It's kinetic energy when it's actually in motion. It's potential energy while it's being stored.

[Quantus]

It's kinetic energy when it's actually in motion. It's potential energy while it's being stored.

Potential energy is specific to energy stored via it's relative position in a system, due to some force field. This is most commonly gravity, in which the energy is related to the height of the object, but can also be in other force field like Electric or Magnetic, or microscopically within an object (the inter molecular forces of a compressed spring, for example).  When released these can and usually do transform most of their energy into Kinetic energy as the field tries to return to a lower energy equilibrium state, though some can be lost in the form of heat , sound, etc. 

The Rings charge by capturing the Kinetic Energy directly, somehow magically storing the momentum involved, and release it directly.  They impart the energy into whatever objects are in the zone of fire, and that object finds itself moving without there being any of the normal other mechanism involved (yay Magic).  Potential Energy isnt the only way to store or transmit Kinetic energy, it is just how it is usually done when you dont have magic to bypass the rules.  It would be like assuming that Elaine's Lightning chain stores electricity through a chemical reaction, just because batteries are so common. 

Also, in every description the rings are said to store "Kinetic Energy" from motion and emit a pure, magical Force effect.  Saying they store Potential Energy is making an assumption on the "How" of it that we cannot be sure of. 

[wizard nelson]

Thats incredibly nitpicky and possibly wrong anyway I'm positive Harry uses the word potential atl once somewhere to describe the rings or their energy. Besides kinetic force stored in a ring isn't a scientific definition of potential in physics, but that is what it is, potential. Is the energy active? No. Is it inert? No. Can it be released from is current state as energy? Yes. Is there an active spell containing this energy? No. If you destroy the ring will all that potential energy be released? Probably. Since the energy isn't actively doing anything like flowing or dispersing its stored as potential. Magically yes, but how would real world physics definitions know you can store kinetic energy via magical 'spring'?

[KrelianZG]

We know that in the DV, conservation of matter/energy still applies (though extended to the Nevernever, in some cases).

So, if we're dealing with MAGIC, I don't see why forms of energy shouldn't be interchangeable. We're already talking about forces that don't obey the laws of physics as we know them. Trying to apply standard Newtonian physics to magic rings seems kinda silly to me.

If you wanted to try to apply real physics to the DV, the energy Harry harnessed for his gravity spell at CI is astronomically large, for example.

Having a decent grasp of the math involved in this stuff, I'm very content to just say "it's magic". Otherwise, you'll drive yourself crazy trying to figure it all out  .

[chrnno]

That's one way of looking at it. Another is that since magic allows one sidestep the whole thing, the best analogy I thought in the minute since I read the post is that it is a like paper, ripping it apart is pretty easy but try holding the extremes and pull it...

[Quantus]

Thats incredibly nitpicky and possibly wrong anyway I'm positive Harry uses the word potential atl once somewhere to describe the rings or their energy. Besides kinetic force stored in a ring isn't a scientific definition of potential in physics, but that is what it is, potential. Is the energy active? No. Is it inert? No. Can it be released from is current state as energy? Yes. Is there an active spell containing this energy? No. If you destroy the ring will all that potential energy be released? Probably. Since the energy isn't actively doing anything like flowing or dispersing its stored as potential. Magically yes, but how would real world physics definitions know you can store kinetic energy via magical 'spring'?

OF course its Nitpicky   But not wrong, I ran a search on it.  When describing the rings or their energy it is always either "kinetic energy" or later  "Telekinetic Force."  He refer to the ring's "Potential Energy" once in WN, but that is to describe the upgraded ring's energy capacity relative to the original, not characterizing the type of energy contained within them. 

[wizard nelson]

explain what the energy is doing if not being held in check as potential force?

[Quantus]

explain what the energy is doing if not being held in check as potential force?

The most obvious answer is "Magic"   More specifically, I would say may well be held in the form of energy he uses for most of his stuff, the Life/Will magic energy that is the basis of most of it, and the core of how he pulls off Force effects specifically.   

The point Im trying to make is that the rings are always described as Kinetic Energy.  Potential Energy and Kinetic Energy are closely tied within the bounds of normal Physics, sure, but are far from the same thing, and even in the real world one does not completely become the other, since there is always some lost to other energy forms (heat, light, sounds, etc).  Saying that his rings store Potential Energy is making an unsupported assumption on the mechanism of how they function, and is not accurate to the text.  Especially since we are talking about Force effects, which bypass more than the usually amount of the natural function of the universe with "magic" since there is no natural mechanism for imparting Force on an object at a distance.  It would be like assuming that it is using a Gravity effect in his Forzare spell, which we know is not the case, but mostly because we have seen him mess with gravity and know it to be a subset of Earth Magic. 

[wizard nelson]

Not really, your complicating the issue and trying to use a physics term for potential kinetic energy that doesn't apply. That the energy is released, let go, when the rings are used show that the energy is potent. Held in check by the enchantment and simply released, like a spring. Why would he take raw kinetics, punching a bag turn it into magic to store it and then back to kinetics to use it? your explanations don't make sense.

It would be like assuming that it is using a Gravity effect in his Forzare spell, which we know is not the case,

And yet you assume that descriptions in physics in a world without magic is applied to magical descriptions in a world were physics and magic mesh?

Saying that his rings store Potential Energy is making an unsupported assumption on the mechanism of how they function

They actually hold back a bit of energy everytime he moves his arm. Meaning his arm is moving with slightly more resistance as the ring holds back potential force.

[chrnno]

I would say clearly it is time manipulation, the rings are just pushing the energy a second ahead so that it in effect doesn't exist in the here and now while being perfectly stored. Since space and time are related when released they always do so in the manner they were created to do without problem to where it came from.

Or I guess if you want to be closer to the books then he is simply doing what he does every time he describes either using the power of a storm or redirecting heat to make both ice and fire. Energy redirected, not changed, or even affected at all. Saying anything else is assuming how(ring) magic works.

[wizard nelson]

Energy redirected, not changed, or even affected at all. Saying anything else is assuming how magic works.

that is how magic works? He either forms it directly from his willpower/charge or he slurps in raw magic and creates his spell. Redirection is easier but thats not what he does usually. Otherwise a gout of fire would create an area of cold as heat is displaced. Redirection is what he did in changes tearing the heat from those vampires and casting it at the next.  I think your making wrong assumptions about how magic works?