Author Topic: This is why the Council is Afraid of Harry Dresden (Spoilers)  (Read 100078 times)

Offline dpara

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 390
  • clear and concise reasoning. sharkslap!
    • View Profile
Re: This is why the Council is Afraid of Harry Dresden (Spoilers)
« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2012, 04:12:29 PM »
Can we assume that some wizard took a true sight look at Harry sometimes?
Since at least some instances should have been noticeable (andor really worrysome) to someone with the sight;
- "wolfishness" after using the belt (getting wrapped in a spirit of rage can't be healthy)
- Harry eating Cravos (even Bob commented on it)
- Harry touching Mavras whines of torment spell
- Harry diverting HWWBs death curse from Inari (Harry said it felt like a piece of his soul ripped out)
- Harry getting a hole in his skull after the wraith deeps (it was a psychic attack?)
- maybe maybe Lash, maybe that is meant with "such an influence is detectable" (maybe maybe Carlos detected it but was just to inexperienced to recognize it)
SH[Mavra---- Molly- Lash+ Elaine+ Murphy++]

Offline Arjan

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 13235
    • View Profile
Re: This is why the Council is Afraid of Harry Dresden (Spoilers)
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2012, 04:52:21 PM »
Can we assume that some wizard took a true sight look at Harry sometimes?
I don't think we can. Most wizards use their sight sparingly.
Quote
Since at least some instances should have been noticeable (andor really worrysome) to someone with the sight;
- "wolfishness" after using the belt (getting wrapped in a spirit of rage can't be healthy)
- Harry eating Cravos (even Bob commented on it)
- Harry touching Mavras whines of torment spell
- Harry diverting HWWBs death curse from Inari (Harry said it felt like a piece of his soul ripped out)
- Harry getting a hole in his skull after the wraith deeps (it was a psychic attack?)
- maybe maybe Lash, maybe that is meant with "such an influence is detectable" (maybe maybe Carlos detected it but was just to inexperienced to recognize it)
WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]

Offline FFguy

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 478
  • There is no logic in my rants.
    • View Profile
Re: This is why the Council is Afraid of Harry Dresden (Spoilers)
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2012, 06:32:39 AM »
Some ideas for ya?

"Mister" Dresden
Dresden has now for several years owned a seemingly domesticated male cat.   It should be noted that Dresden's cat "Mister" seems to have odd tastes.  While normally the feline will simply prowl like any other cat.  There has been odd occasions where "Mister" has visited strip clubs.  The cat is larger than most cats and is missing most of its tail.  While attempts to see Mister with the Sight have produced nothing of merit, it is possible Dresden is using the cat in some unknown ritual or spell to fulfill voyeuristic sexual fantasies.  This ceased when Thomas Raith moved in with Dresden and since Raith's departure there has been nothing to suggest Dresden has resumed this pattern.  Shortly before the destruction of the Red Court, Dresden's Chicago apartment was destroyed in a fire.  According to reports from local authorities it is believed to have been arson.  "Mister" is believed to have escaped the apartment but his whereabouts are currently unknown.  However given Dresden's disappearance the cat could be in the care of one of Dresden's contacts or allies.
 
The Scary Truth about Chuck Norris
Chuck Norris may be able to round house kick you to death but only after he gets permission from Mister.  Just think about that.  Chuck Norris the most powerful being ever known needs to get the okay from a cat.  Beware the cat.  Fear the cat.

Offline lunyboy

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 558
  • Lunatic Fringe
    • View Profile
    • My Portfolio
Re: This is why the Council is Afraid of Harry Dresden (Spoilers)
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2012, 03:56:47 PM »
It is worth nothing that this is represents the Wardens perspectives, so that might need to be reflected in some of the intel, since Luccio, Carlos and the Texan might know things about Harry, but not share them.

Remember how poorly-informed Luccio is about other things when she tries to explain them to Harry.
"...I am a cruel and vengeful god." - Jim Butcher

Offline Arjan

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 13235
    • View Profile
Re: This is why the Council is Afraid of Harry Dresden (Spoilers)
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2012, 04:29:15 PM »
It is worth nothing that this is represents the Wardens perspectives, so that might need to be reflected in some of the intel, since Luccio, Carlos and the Texan might know things about Harry, but not share them.

Remember how poorly-informed Luccio is about other things when she tries to explain them to Harry.
They are wizards. They do not share information.

Somewhere there is a woj telling that the senior council together knows everything about Harry's background but nobody knows it all and they do not know what the others know or don't know. Or something like that.

From Dead Beat:
Quote
Come on, I'm a wizard. We have union rules against telling anybody anything.
WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]

Offline jyn8462

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 137
    • View Profile
Re: This is why the Council is Afraid of Harry Dresden (Spoilers)
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2012, 11:57:16 PM »
Does anyone besides Harry ever comment on it, though?
Yes Nicodemus mentioned it "There are rumors that a certain Warden has been flinging Hellfire at his foes." [Small Favor, 242]. Though given the source it is entirely possible that no one in the counsel would have this information, at least if they are actually loyal to the counsel.

Report of multiple sorcerer confrontation (Age 30)
       •   Appointed Regional Warden Commander by  Captain Anastasia Luccio
       •   Initiated multi-warden combat  with Class 1 Sorcerers (Necromancers)
               o   Grevane (deceased)
               o   Capriocorpus (deceased)
               o   Cowl (Reported at large by Dresden)
       •   All Wardens present except Dresden and Ramirez were disabled or killed
       •   Initiated Necromansic animation of 65 million year old T-Rex (Sue) and
                used zombie to kill Necromancers and disrupt “Darkhallow” ritual.
Maybe a mention that some time during these events he gained/started a quarrel of some kind through unknown means with the Erlking.

Notice of confrontation with magical being (Age 32)
       •   Warden training camp attaqcked by Ghouls
               o       2 trainees were kidnapped and killed
               o      Dresden shows conversational skill in Ghoul language
               o      Upon death of trainees Dresden demonstrates unstable emotional state
                          Extreme torture of Ghoul as method of execution
I feel like there was a mention in White Night that since that event Ghouls haven't attacked Wizards as often or something like that and this might be reflected in the report.

Report of exposure to psychic manipulation (Age 33)
       •   Queen Mab removed all knowledge and memory of fire magic from Dresden's conscious mind
               o   Spell reversed by Knight of the Cross (Michael Carpenter)
               o   Shortly after this incident Dresden lost almost all contact with Thomas Raith.
Would the counsel have this information? How would they have gotten it? It's unlikely that Harry told them and as far as I can remember he never told anyone who actually did the manipulation.

Official notification to Council that Dresden was harboring fugitive Warden (Age 35)
       •   Negotiated peaceful transfer of prisoner to senior council
       •   Assignation attempt on Senior Council Members
               o   While negotiating transfer of Donald Morgan Senior Council members were attacked
                         by a large army of beings from the never never as well as a Naagloshii.
Should there be mention that Dresden was able to survive, at least for a time, direct and single combat with the Naagloshii prior to Listens to Wind's arrival? Maybe another mention of the assessments of his skills being inadequate.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 12:09:36 AM by jyn8462 »
He didnt really die, he was just busy boinking a force of nature, which is bound to mess with your natural rhythms.
I have lexdysia (give it a minute it'll come to you) so spelling and I are on occasional speaking

Offline Arjan

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 13235
    • View Profile
Re: This is why the Council is Afraid of Harry Dresden (Spoilers)
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2012, 04:27:24 AM »
Yes Nicodemus mentioned it "There are rumors that a certain Warden has been flinging Hellfire at his foes." [Small Favor, 242]. Though given the source it is entirely possible that no one in the counsel would have this information, at least if they are actually loyal to the counsel.
Nicodemus was still trying to recruit Harry here. It could be he just threatened to start the rumour here. His main purpose was to spread distrust between Harry and his friends to isolate him and so to make him an easier target for Lasciel's shadow.
Quote
Maybe a mention that some time during these events he gained/started a quarrel of some kind through unknown means with the Erlking.
 I feel like there was a mention in White Night that since that event Ghouls haven't attacked Wizards as often or something like that and this might be reflected in the report.
 Would the counsel have this information? How would they have gotten it? It's unlikely that Harry told them and as far as I can remember he never told anyone who actually did the manipulation.
 Should there be mention that Dresden was able to survive, at least for a time, direct and single combat with the Naagloshii prior to Listens to Wind's arrival? Maybe another mention of the assessments of his skills being inadequate.
Both Listen to Wind and Ebenezar are friendly to Harry. They might not even tell that much about it to other wizards. They are wizards after all.

WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]

Offline AxGrinder

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 621
  • I like to be in the middle of things. With my ax.
    • View Profile
Re: This is why the Council is Afraid of Harry Dresden (Spoilers)
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2012, 05:45:53 AM »
You should have an update including the fairy initiation ceremony.

Offline jyn8462

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 137
    • View Profile
Re: This is why the Council is Afraid of Harry Dresden (Spoilers)
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2012, 06:20:06 AM »
Both Listen to Wind and Ebenezar are friendly to Harry. They might not even tell that much about it to other wizards. They are wizards after all.
I do agree that they may not have told the counsel of the fight or at least not the details of it, but you would think this is the sort of thing the wardens would want to know about, I mean this possibly dark wizard time-bomb runs off in the middle of an all out assault on three members of the senior counsel and then when Listens to Wind is found later after having gone to find him they find Harry out cold with injuries and Listen to Wind has a broken arm. You'd think some one would have asked what happened.
He didnt really die, he was just busy boinking a force of nature, which is bound to mess with your natural rhythms.
I have lexdysia (give it a minute it'll come to you) so spelling and I are on occasional speaking

Offline Arjan

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 13235
    • View Profile
Re: This is why the Council is Afraid of Harry Dresden (Spoilers)
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2012, 06:35:34 AM »
I do agree that they may not have told the counsel of the fight or at least not the details of it, but you would think this is the sort of thing the wardens would want to know about, I mean this possibly dark wizard time-bomb runs off in the middle of an all out assault on three members of the senior counsel and then when Listens to Wind is found later after having gone to find him they find Harry out cold with injuries and Listen to Wind has a broken arm. You'd think some one would have asked what happened.
Might have asked and got some vague or cryptic answer. Wizards are terrible in sharing information. The number of times Harry should have told things to his friends and did not. Ebenezar is even worse. Remember Harry's reaction when Molly in changes explained about the speaking stone. Thomas and the donut in smal Favor.

It is not just Harry and Eb. They are all like that. That makes it so difficult to tell what the council knows about Harry. Each fact or each lie (or combination of those) can have a different spreading among the wizards of the white council.
WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]

Offline jyn8462

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 137
    • View Profile
Re: This is why the Council is Afraid of Harry Dresden (Spoilers)
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2012, 06:47:54 AM »
Might have asked and got some vague or cryptic answer. Wizards are terrible in sharing information. The number of times Harry should have told things to his friends and did not. Ebenezar is even worse. Remember Harry's reaction when Molly in changes explained about the speaking stone. Thomas and the donut in smal Favor.

It is not just Harry and Eb. They are all like that. That makes it so difficult to tell what the council knows about Harry. Each fact or each lie (or combination of those) can have a different spreading among the wizards of the white council.
Each of those instances is sharing information with non-wizards, I'm not saying that wizards tell each other everything, but you have to admit they are more likely to discuss topics like the speaking stones with another wizard rather than a vanilla mortal.
He didnt really die, he was just busy boinking a force of nature, which is bound to mess with your natural rhythms.
I have lexdysia (give it a minute it'll come to you) so spelling and I are on occasional speaking

Offline Arjan

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 13235
    • View Profile
Re: This is why the Council is Afraid of Harry Dresden (Spoilers)
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2012, 06:51:41 AM »
Each of those instances is sharing information with non-wizards, I'm not saying that wizards tell each other everything, but you have to admit they are more likely to discuss topics like the speaking stones with another wizard rather than a vanilla mortal.
The point is there are strong indications they are that way to each other as well especially with important information.
WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]

Offline jyn8462

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 137
    • View Profile
Re: This is why the Council is Afraid of Harry Dresden (Spoilers)
« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2012, 07:00:50 AM »
The point is there are strong indications they are that way to each other as well especially with important information.
Yea I can see that. Might just be a personal thing, I would have trouble with not getting a straight answer to something like that incident, especially if I was one of those wardens and had concerns about Harry. Though I suppose if on of my bosses essentially told me to shove my badgering questions where the sun don't shine I'd have to settle for quietly stalking Harry to try to find out.
He didnt really die, he was just busy boinking a force of nature, which is bound to mess with your natural rhythms.
I have lexdysia (give it a minute it'll come to you) so spelling and I are on occasional speaking

Offline Arjan

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 13235
    • View Profile
Re: This is why the Council is Afraid of Harry Dresden (Spoilers)
« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2012, 07:08:56 AM »
Yea I can see that. Might just be a personal thing, I would have trouble with not getting a straight answer to something like that incident, especially if I was one of those wardens and had concerns about Harry. Though I suppose if on of my bosses essentially told me to shove my badgering questions where the sun don't shine I'd have to settle for quietly stalking Harry to try to find out.
And at a certain moment they get used to it and ask fewer and fewer questions and everyone hoards all information they can get. Not only superiors telling nothing to their people but also the other way round. It has become a mindset. It is like Harry's joke in dead beat. But the joke was a way of telling the truth.
WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]

Offline jyn8462

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 137
    • View Profile
Re: This is why the Council is Afraid of Harry Dresden (Spoilers)
« Reply #44 on: December 05, 2012, 07:34:12 AM »
And at a certain moment they get used to it and ask fewer and fewer questions and everyone hoards all information they can get. Not only superiors telling nothing to their people but also the other way round. It has become a mindset. It is like Harry's joke in dead beat. But the joke was a way of telling the truth.
Still there would have to be a certain amount of sharing of information or there wouldn't be any information to put into reports.

I just find it hard to believe the counsel would have found out about Mab meddling with his mind (which had no witnesses to the identity of said meddler, and it's also unlikely given the aforementioned reluctance of wizards with sharing information that Harry would have told anyone), but they would have no information at all in a report on the character of a potentially dangerous wizard about the fight said wizard had with a Naagloshii (which is a rather powerfully dangerous creature). It just feels inconsistent.
He didnt really die, he was just busy boinking a force of nature, which is bound to mess with your natural rhythms.
I have lexdysia (give it a minute it'll come to you) so spelling and I are on occasional speaking