4th Law Question: Did Obi-One Break It?

[Vash the white]

Switty swimtty, crunchity crunchity, along comes the fisherman, rowity rowity, he catches the fishity. along come you, crunchity crunchity.
Please tell me someone got that joke, i would have told the whole story but i dont have the time

[Ophidimancer]

Except the jedi mind trick (a traditionally "light side" power) breaks the 4th law which they would be none to happy about.  I'm pretty sure a warden would see the "these are not the droids you are looking for" and out comes the sword and the choppity choppity stabbity stabbity.  No questions asked.  No explanations, just "o shit he just mindcontrolled that guy" chop chop chop.

Ahh but then you get the inconsistency of mashing two 'verses together.  In Star Wars, what the Jedi do is all Light Side and wouldn't stain their souls with Dark Side taint, so would it show up to the Sight?

[Ala Alba]

To be honest, I think that "these are not the droids you're looking for" is on the same level as the magic that the WC uses to get normal people to avoid their meetings. Isn't that kind of magic brought up in Summer Knight or Proven Guilty?

[Scapey]

WC enchants a *place* to be less noticed, uninteresting, unobtrusive, not the same. Like dressing a hot chick in school marm clothes, nothing about the viewer was affected, but they still dont notice her.

[Dan from Chicago]

Dude ... Jedi Knights were fucked-up sinister not-so-secret police. They were emotionally repressed cultists who could execute people on sight on their own authority.

The White Council would have been whacking Jedi right and left, and would have been completely justified in doing it.

Forget Obi-wan ... Luke mind controls Jabba the Hut's peon into letting him in the door when he was specifically ordered not to do it ... think the peon survived Jabba's displeasure?

[Bruce Coulson]

The Force isn't magic.

So, no, the Jedi don't violate the 4th Law of Magic...or any of the other ones, either.

[ballplayer72]

Ahh but then you get the inconsistency of mashing two 'verses together.  In Star Wars, what the Jedi do is all Light Side and wouldn't stain their souls with Dark Side taint, so would it show up to the Sight?

Whos talking about the Sight?    Warden So an So witnesses obi wan kenobi putting the mind whammy on several soldiers.  He pulls out his sword and does his best to help obi wan with his king louis impression (post revolution).  He witnessed warlocky activity in a non explainable manner (he used a supernatural force on some guys to change their minds).  He makes with the choppity. Questions can come later. Warden so an so has no schemas for "the force" or for "light side dark side".  He only knows what he's lived with his whole life: That mind control is a no no punished by swift death.

Just like obi wan would think elaine was a dark jedi cause she's hurling lightning bolts all over the place.  He's got no schema for magic, only for the Force.

[ballplayer72]

To be honest, I think that "these are not the droids you're looking for" is on the same level as the magic that the WC uses to get normal people to avoid their meetings. Isn't that kind of magic brought up in Summer Knight or Proven Guilty?

Harry uses it in TC to ward his hidey hole.  Its a "don't look at me" sort of magic.    However it does not work against Active Suspicion.  Like stormtrooper jerry saying "hey youve got droids.  An astro mech and a protocal droid too..   Those are JUST the type we're on the look out for.  I need to see some papers fella".  To which obi wan replies "You don't need to see my papers. these are not the droids you are looking for."  He CHANGED HIS MIND. Thats the key for breaking the 4th law. Otherwise harry's first real discussion on the 4th law wouldn't include disparaging remarks about stupid ignorant kids trying "the ole jedi mind trick" as their first step on the path to crazed warlockitude.

[Jeckel]

The Force isn't magic.

So, no, the Jedi don't violate the 4th Law of Magic...or any of the other ones, either.

I couldn't agree more. It ain't magic and has no relation to the Laws other then some over zealous warden thinking it is magic and punishing accordingly.

[ballplayer72]

I couldn't agree more. It ain't magic and has no relation to the Laws other then some over zealous warden thinking it is magic and punishing accordingly.

Overzealous?  the WARDENS?  never 

[FutureGameDesigner]

The Force isn't magic.

So, no, the Jedi don't violate the 4th Law of Magic...or any of the other ones, either.

Crap, I completely forgot that. Though, if it were magic, it would be a blatant violation.  But it's not, so we're good.  Only problem is, Carlos and Harry are probably the only one's smart enough to stop and consider whether it's magic or not.  All the other wardens would ASS-U-ME that it was magic and some might just not care if it is or not.

It takes about a dozen or so Jedi to yank fling an entire battlegroup of Star Destroyers out into interplanetary space, dunno what it takes to yank one down.  But just about any Jedi can move your average starfighter, so the idea that they can't handle a satellite is...well silly.  But, a satellite coming in that fast they probably couldn't stop, turn far enough not to hurt them maybe, but not stop.  What they can do...is nearly always see it coming long before they lose their opportunity to get away.  Jedi don't just see a few milliseconds into the future, they see how ever far they need to see, how ever far the Force needs them to see.  Usually that's a split second sooner than an attack would land, but generally they'll sense danger or such before it occurs.  They're not perfect and do fail in that regard sometimes, but wizards aren't perfect either...not even the ones who pretend to be, like the Merlin.

I think what this all boils down to is the classic Sci-fi vs. Fantasy issue.  Which is amusing, since the only thing Sci-fi about Jedi is their lightsaber, and that requires their fantasy powers to function correctly.  Everything else in Star Wars is Sci-fi...but not the Force, not even close.

As for the Jedi being the cultists blah blah blah...totally right...and also a near-perfect description of the White Council.

Ultimately though, the question has been answered by someone smarter than all of us, the guy I quoted.  The Jedi Mind Trick does NOT violate the 4th Law because use of the Force is not magic.