How bad (+ refresh) is this Silver Catch (like suffering from venomous claws)

[JosephKell]

"The Catch (YS 185) is silver.  Silver is so dangerous for therianthropes that touching it burns the skin (resulting in compels against high concept), and if it gets into the blood (such as from a penetrating injury) it acts like venomous claws with a Fists score equal to the initial stress of the injury."

For instance, if the character was hit with a silver club (say someone alloyed silver metal onto a bat), it would ignore the toughness and recovery powers.

If that same character were stabbed with a silver knife (Weapon:1) with 1 effect, he would have to make Endurance checks against a Fair attack every exchange or take a physical stress equal to the effect.

Yes, this obviously can mean that a silver poisoned creature is almost "insta-gibbed."

[Deadmanwalking]

Probably another +1 or so. Maybe +2 (matching the cost of Venomous), but that'd really be pushing it, since it doesn't always apply. I'd say +1 is totally balanced.

[Drachasor]

Probably another +1 or so. Maybe +2 (matching the cost of Venomous), but that'd really be pushing it, since it doesn't always apply. I'd say +1 is totally balanced.

You mean +1 over and beyond straight up costs for silver as a normal catch, yes?

[Deadmanwalking]

You mean +1 over and beyond straight up costs for silver as a normal catch, yes?

That is indeed what I meant, yes. Which is likely +3 or +4 depending on whether it looks like a werewolf or not (for a total of +4 or +5 with this 'enhancement').

[JosephKell]

That is indeed what I meant, yes. Which is likely +3 or +4 depending on whether it looks like a werewolf or not (for a total of +4 or +5 with this 'enhancement').

Why does it looking like a werewolf make it more "catchy"?  This seems like it should be exactly the same catch bonus as faerie receive since the big threat is from clued in individuals.

Or is "Werewolves Die from Silver" more common knowledge than "Use Iron on Faeries?"

[Deadmanwalking]

Yes, it really is. There aren't a crapload of movies about the Fae and iron.

Also, there's a reason I specified 'looks like a werewolf', most fae do not look like what most think of as a 'Faerie', which IMO is a large part of the reason their Catch isn't +4 since people who haven't dealt with that specific critter before don't know it's Fae and thus don't know to use Cold Iron. Something that looks like a werewolf? You pretty much know to try silver.

[Korwin]

*mumbles*
Still, the weapon used against an Fae, could by accident be an (Cold) Iron Weapon...

Silver Swords arent as common as Steel/Iron Swords (or Crowbars for that matter)...

[Deadmanwalking]

True! But frequency of occurence isn't actually part of the cost structure, just ease of acquisition, and silver's pretty easy to get.

[Korwin]

True! But frequency of occurence isn't actually part of the cost structure, just ease of acquisition, and silver's pretty easy to get.

Yeah, Silver is easy to get. But...
one could argue, its not so easy to get Silver bullets or Silver-Swords (or Silver crowbars for that matter).
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Murphy made the silver bullets herself, so if none of the PC has an Craft skill or an suitable contact its not so easy anymore.

Shure thats not a problem for NSC's...)

[Drachasor]

Yeah, Silver is easy to get. But...
one could argue, its not so easy to get Silver bullets or Silver-Swords (or Silver crowbars for that matter).
(

(click to show/hide)

Murphy made the silver bullets herself, so if none of the PC has an Craft skill or an suitable contact its not so easy anymore.

Shure thats not a problem for NSC's...)

Granted about Murphy, but in actuality silver bullets are hard to make.  The same techniques one would use to make homemade normal bullets won't work with a soft metal like silver.  Jim didn't do his research there, but it isn't a very common thing to look into, I admit.

Frankly, I think Iron should be a +4 catch, just because so many weapons are made out of it anyhow (an adjustment to the pricing system would be needed, with a +3 availability option indicating that weapons are very commonly made out of the material).  Frankly, there's no need to guess if something is a Fae or not...just have your weapons be steel to be safe -- it's negligible effort.  Anyhow, it's a bit unclear how much appearance plays into the default catch rules in terms of research.

As for Werewolves, they have kind of the opposite thing going on.  Only some of them have catches to Silver and many things that look like them don't (and the Loup-Garou needs very special silver).  That muddles the knowledge issue a good bit.  Still, normal silver for a werewolf-like creature sounds like a +3 to me...+4 seems a bit too high.  I agree with Deadmanwalking's take on the mod, and I'd also say it is ONLY +1 because the catch bonus is so good.  A +0 catch that acts like a poison shouldn't get your anything, since it is so hard to get the catch to begin with, imho.

[Bruce Coulson]

In classic mythology, the Fae catch was cold iron; unalloyed iron.  This is still easy to obtain (any cooking store will have cast-iron skillets, for instance) but not something that everyone carries on them at all times.

And remember that PCs are exceptional, clued-in the the supernatural.  How many normal Joes and Janes even CARRY weapons, of ANY type?  Or have any training in their use? 

[Nomad]

Actually unless you are loaded with birdshot, none of the regular bullets (except very cheap stuff) satisfy the cold iron catch.
Out of hand I would say than an average npc has a 50/50 chance of being armed with a tire iron or baseball bat.
So although the cold iron catch is very easy to fullfill, it doesn't happen as much as it seems (normally. PCs are a totally different matter.)


On silver bullets; I would say that for anyone with +2 or better on guns, there is a big chance of having access to hand loading. These people shoot a lot (for plinking, for recreation, to stay in shape, whatever)  and handloading makes it cost less. 
True you can't make a military grade bullet out of silver but for a reduced civilian load,  they make ok bullets.

[Drachasor]

Actually unless you are loaded with birdshot, none of the regular bullets (except very cheap stuff) satisfy the cold iron catch.
Out of hand I would say than an average npc has a 50/50 chance of being armed with a tire iron or baseball bat.
So although the cold iron catch is very easy to fullfill, it doesn't happen as much as it seems (normally. PCs are a totally different matter.)

Steel-jacketed bullets would do the trick though.  Might require making sure your pistol/whatever was bought with the capability to handle such rounds in mind.

On silver bullets; I would say that for anyone with +2 or better on guns, there is a big chance of having access to hand loading. These people shoot a lot (for plinking, for recreation, to stay in shape, whatever)  and handloading makes it cost less. 
True you can't make a military grade bullet out of silver but for a reduced civilian load,  they make ok bullets.

My point above was that making the actual silver bullet is NOT trivial.  You need materials suitable for dealing with softer metals, so that's actually really custom stuff.  That's what I found out when I looked into silver bullets for an RPG once.  There ARE silver bullets for sale out there, but they are very expensive and rare because of this.  Making them yourself is very difficult and not the same as making normal bullets.

[Nomad]

You are correct but for game terms, letting a character that has access to a full deal workspace (even if everything is the most basic grade) for custom loading bullets, to smelt his/her own 45 grams of silver is not that much of a strech. (in other words crafting custom bullets using guns "ritual") All you actually need is 3,4 pieces of extra equipment

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(A graphite beaker, a butane lighter / tripod assembly and a clay mold. Maybe a pair of tongs if you don't have...)

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[JosephKell]

So, any thoughts on why Fae don't have some sort of venomous reaction to cold iron?

Did the Evil Hat guys not think of it?  Or discard it because it is unnecessarily vicious or an extra annoyance?

Maybe an extra +1 catch for most fae is meaningless since they tend to only have -2 or -4 worth of toughness stuff?