Author Topic: Staff of Enoch  (Read 4486 times)

Offline Fedifensor

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Staff of Enoch
« on: July 11, 2010, 08:20:27 PM »
One of my players in our forthcoming Denver campaign wants to play a Champion of God.  After discussing ways to create a character roughly equivalent to a Knight of the Cross, it was suggested that the character wield a staff carved from the original Tree of Knowledge (also known as the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, or occasionally the Tree of Conscience).  So, I've taken a first pass at writing up the Staff, and I'm looking for feedback.  I need to figure out how many points of refresh it will cost, and whether the weapon is balanced versus a Sword of the Cross.  Currently, I think it is weaker, but I'm still learning the FATE system.

From Wikipedia:  The pseudepigraphic Book of Enoch 31:4, dating from the last few centuries before Christ and purporting to be by the antediluvian prophet Enoch, describes the tree of knowledge: "It was like a species of the Tamarind tree, bearing fruit which resembled grapes extremely fine; and its fragrance extended to a considerable distance. I exclaimed, How beautiful is this tree, and how delightful is its appearance!")

Staff of Enoch
Description:  You possess the Staff of Enoch, supposedly crafted from a branch of the Biblical Tree of Knowledge by the antediluvian prophet.  The staff is about four feet long, shaped to resemble a walking stick, and carved from rich, red wood that is likely from a Tamarind tree.
Musts:  You must have an aspect that reflects your destiny or calling to wield the Staff of Enoch.  This does not have to be a high concept, but should be an aspect that can be used as a compel for virtuous behavior (see Divine Conscience, below).
Skills Affected:  Lore, Scholarship, others
Effects:
Knowledge of All:  This is the true purpose of the Staff of Enoch, to reveal the hidden truths of anything it touches.  Once the Staff has touched a creature or object, the wielder gets a +1 on any skill check regarding what was touched for the remainder of the scene (including Weapons skill rolls against the target).  
By spending a Fate point, the wielder automatically learns any weakness of the creature (whatever "the Catch" is on their Toughness powers), no matter how obscure.  However, the Staff, unlike the Swords of the Cross, does not give the wielder the ability to bypass a foe's defensive abilities (other than what would already be bypassed by the other powers of the Staff).  In addition, the wielder may make a free assessment of the target as if using the Sight (see page 233) by rolling Lore.  This is done without any risk of mental stress, as the Staff shields the wielder from the negative effects of what is revealed.
Lorekeeper:  The Staff gives a +1 to all Lore and Scholarship skill checks (this stacks with the bonus from Knowledge of All, above).
Divine Conscience:  The Staff influences the morality of the wielder, encouraging them to act with selfless purposes.  As long as the wielder has an aspect reflecting some form of virtue, the Staff has the ability to compel that aspect.  Should the wielder succumb to temptation despite the compel, the aspect Crisis of Faith is gained and the wielder cannot use the other abilities of the Staff until a trial of faith is undertaken.  
If anyone else takes up the Staff and uses it selfishly, the original bearer of the Staff is still responsible for how the weapon is used, with similar repercussions.
Holy:  This weapon is a powerful holy symbol in its own right.  Its very touch is like holy water or that of a cross or other symbol of faith backed by the belief of the possessor.
It's A Staff:  The Staff of Enoch always takes the form of a staff or walking stick, though the precise form may change throughout the ages.  As a staff, it functions as a Weapon: 2, with the attributes of any other staff.
Unbreakable:  As an Item of Power, it cannot be broken, save through dedicated magical ritual predicated upon perverting its purpose.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2010, 09:52:47 PM by Fedifensor »

Offline luminos

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Re: Staff of Enoch
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2010, 08:24:23 PM »
Knowledge of all is extremely powerful, -3 at the least.  I want to say the staff is a total -3 item (discount already factored in) but honestly, the knowledge of all could potentially be worth a lot more.
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Offline Deadmanwalking

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Re: Staff of Enoch
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2010, 08:26:25 PM »
Yeah, Knowledge of All is about a -3 Refresh power, with Holy and Lorekeeper both -1 each. Toss on the +2 for Item of Power and the staff comes out at -3 total. That sounds about right.

Offline Fedifensor

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Re: Staff of Enoch
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2010, 08:31:35 PM »
Cool, I'll go with -5 then (-3 after discount).

Offline Drachasor

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Re: Staff of Enoch
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2010, 07:37:27 AM »
Knowledge of all is extremely powerful, -3 at the least.  I want to say the staff is a total -3 item (discount already factored in) but honestly, the knowledge of all could potentially be worth a lot more.

Hmm, I don't think Knowledge is that bad.  Generally I'd think All Creatures are Equal Before God + True Aim is better.

I'd certainly so no more than -3 (with the discount).  Maybe even just a -2.  One advantage of the Sword of the Cross is all of its powers really synergize very well.  The Staff, on the other hand, is not that good of a weapon and so Holy and bonuses to weapon skills aren't quite as good with it.  Further, it will only satisfy the catch of creatures vulnerable to holy stuff, basically, which makes the combat-advantages relatively worse.  It's perhaps most useful for a Wizard or other magic user, but that makes needing to touch creatures with the staff more problematic (though the +1 to defenses you get get once you touch a guy is fairly nice).

This is kind of hard to call just because the bonuses aren't tightly focused, imho.

Offline Crion

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Re: Staff of Enoch
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2010, 01:53:06 PM »
I'm with the others on this: -3 after discount sounds pretty fair to me.

Personally, I like how this is more of a researcher/librarian/support item and not an upfront combat weapon. Need to see more of these more often.
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Offline luminos

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Re: Staff of Enoch
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2010, 04:09:27 PM »
My main concern about the Knowledge of all power is that it can be abused be cheese tactics.  Example:  The staff is touching the person using it, so they justify adding a +1 to everything they do since they have perfect knowledge of themselves.  That might be more of a player issue, and can be dealt with outside of the items cost, but you do need to be aware of its potential for such abuse.
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Offline Fedifensor

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Re: Staff of Enoch
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2010, 01:48:16 AM »
My main concern about the Knowledge of all power is that it can be abused be cheese tactics.
In a more crunchy system like D&D, I could see someone arguing that.  But in FATE, the system is focused more on players and gamemaster coming to a consensus.  Besides, I'm not the type of gamemaster that puts up with that level of rules abuse.

Offline Drachasor

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Re: Staff of Enoch
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2010, 09:35:18 AM »
My main concern about the Knowledge of all power is that it can be abused be cheese tactics.  Example:  The staff is touching the person using it, so they justify adding a +1 to everything they do since they have perfect knowledge of themselves.  That might be more of a player issue, and can be dealt with outside of the items cost, but you do need to be aware of its potential for such abuse.

Sounds more like an idiotic GM issue, as that's clearly not what was intended.

Offline toturi

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Re: Staff of Enoch
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2010, 12:41:54 PM »
My main concern about the Knowledge of all power is that it can be abused be cheese tactics.  Example:  The staff is touching the person using it, so they justify adding a +1 to everything they do since they have perfect knowledge of themselves.  That might be more of a player issue, and can be dealt with outside of the items cost, but you do need to be aware of its potential for such abuse.
This is an excellent tactic. It doesn't sound cheesy to me, it sounds like an innovative twist. It may not have been what was intended but if every power could only do what was intended, then it doesn't sound like it is an interesting game.
With your laws of magic, wizards would pretty much just be helpless carebears who can only do magic tricks. - BumblingBear

Offline CMEast

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Re: Staff of Enoch
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2010, 12:53:49 PM »
This is an excellent tactic. It doesn't sound cheesy to me, it sounds like an innovative twist. It may not have been what was intended but if every power could only do what was intended, then it doesn't sound like it is an interesting game.

I'd say the act of observation automatically changes them and so I'd either cancel out the +1 bonus, or allow it temporarily but give them a mental consequence like 'self-doubt' or 'depression' as all the little self-delusions the character had about themselves were wiped away. It could be pretty traumatic and massively weaken their self-belief.

Offline Fedifensor

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Re: Staff of Enoch
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2010, 03:47:27 AM »
This is an excellent tactic. It doesn't sound cheesy to me, it sounds like an innovative twist. It may not have been what was intended but if every power could only do what was intended, then it doesn't sound like it is an interesting game.
An innovative twist would be something that wouldn't be expected for a particular situation - for example, touching a keypad and spending a fate point to find out the exact serial number of the device, then calling the manufacturer to get the master code to unlock it (Deceit skill, with a free tag on the roll for "knows the code").

Asking for a +1 on everything because you "know yourself" isn't innovative...it's a blatant power grab.

Offline toturi

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Re: Staff of Enoch
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2010, 09:51:32 AM »
An innovative twist would be something that wouldn't be expected for a particular situation - for example, touching a keypad and spending a fate point to find out the exact serial number of the device, then calling the manufacturer to get the master code to unlock it (Deceit skill, with a free tag on the roll for "knows the code").

Asking for a +1 on everything because you "know yourself" isn't innovative...it's a blatant power grab.
When you read the power, did you expect it to be used this way? If yes, I'd say that it is an innovative twist, in addition to being a brilliant power grab.
With your laws of magic, wizards would pretty much just be helpless carebears who can only do magic tricks. - BumblingBear

Offline Deadmanwalking

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Re: Staff of Enoch
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2010, 10:09:00 AM »
When you read the power, did you expect it to be used this way? If yes, I'd say that it is an innovative twist, in addition to being a brilliant power grab.

No. Just no. It's not brilliant in the least, it's taking the most literal possible reading of a power (ignoring both it's intent and, for the most part, logic) and then twisting it to your own advantage. I'm an exceedingly permissive GM, but this is just ignoring the spirit of the rules as intended and would not fly in my game. It's just ignoring the spirit of the rule to follow the letter, which is always the wrong choice regarding RPG rules.

Not everything that wasn't intended when a power was written is 'clever'. Alot of it is just blatant misinterpretation compounded by greed for power. Neither of which are something I like to encourage in my players.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 10:10:45 AM by Deadmanwalking »

Offline toturi

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Re: Staff of Enoch
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2010, 11:21:22 AM »
No. Just no. It's not brilliant in the least, it's taking the most literal possible reading of a power (ignoring both it's intent and, for the most part, logic) and then twisting it to your own advantage. I'm an exceedingly permissive GM, but this is just ignoring the spirit of the rules as intended and would not fly in my game. It's just ignoring the spirit of the rule to follow the letter, which is always the wrong choice regarding RPG rules.

Not everything that wasn't intended when a power was written is 'clever'. Alot of it is just blatant misinterpretation compounded by greed for power. Neither of which are something I like to encourage in my players.
Yes. Surely yes! It is quite smart, it takes the literal interpretation and upends the assumptions that most people will make for that power, it ignores the limits most people will assume when reading the rule and use it advantageously. I am not a permissive GM, but this is using the letter of the rules so it will fly very well in my game. The spirit of any rule in a game I run is to empower my players and allow them to to have fun finding a creative interpretation of the letter.

Not everything that wasn't intended when a power was written is 'clever' but anything that makes a power better it was intended when it was written is. Anything that makes the power worse is 'stupid' and anything that forces the power to conform to 'what was intended' is boring. It is a possible interpretation of the rule which I will gladly applaud and encourage in my game. It is creative, innovative and ingenious, which is something I like to encourage in my players.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 11:32:16 AM by toturi »
With your laws of magic, wizards would pretty much just be helpless carebears who can only do magic tricks. - BumblingBear