Erlking Magic

[Crion]

It's a bit unclear really.  We don't have any sponsored magic users in the books that break laws.  Not any mortals, at least.  We don't know how the White Council would react.

Reading this again makes me think of Summer Knight. There is apparently a rule of sorts that denotes someone acting as a "tool" for another is not held responsible for their own actions.

That is, Toot and the other Little Folk were not held accountable for their actions, and the Alphas were also not held for their actions either (as was noted in "Something Borrowed"). Anyone that had a gripe about those things had to bring them up with Harry, and sidestepping that creates problems.

So. . .with this in mind, can you really consider trying to uphold a single groups laws (i.e. White Council's Laws of Magic) to a badged representative of a higher power (i.e. the Faerie Queens), when the higher power is actually the one responsible for those actions?

Again, just my line of thought, but it does lead to some interesting debates. . .

[black omega]

The Goblin Knight thread has alot of interesting stuff.  I'd not heard of Balefire from the Erlking before so that's something to work in as well.

I'm inclined to stick with a sword as the item of power, but the idea of a old style hunting rifle has appeal.  Mostly because it reminds of Rip Van Winkle and her magic bullets in the Hellsing manga.  Which were originally based on the opera Der Freischütz using a black huntsman (Zamiel) as the stand in for the devil in creating bullets that never miss.

[black omega]

After some more thought, here is my shot at Erlking's magic.

Drawing on the power of the Erlking, you are able to cast spells that fit his essential nature: wildness, the hunt, balefire, bloodlust, death.  This magic is under the sway and watch of the Erlking; making use of it will inevitably catch his notice. 

Cost:  4 refresh for the package, not to mention the approval of the Erlking.  Reduce this cost by 1 if you already have Evocation or Thaumaturgy; reduce the cost by 2 if you have both.

Benefits:  Standard sponsored magic benefits. 

In Addition, the Erlking's magic may be used as an element for evocation, allowing evocation effects that encourage wildness, the hunt, balefire, bloodlust, and death.  This includes the ability to produce effects along the lines of divination tracking spells but with an evocation spells methods and speed.  The Erlking's evocations always include the otherworldliness of the hunt in some way.  Vines to trap will have thorns, balefire is eerie and green, a tracking spell may scare near by animals.


I'm not sure of a Catch for the Erlking, nor if there is anything he'd effect more than normal.  I'm tempted to go with Winter, since the use of fire and the end of hunting in many places once winter starts make me associate the Erlking a little more with Summer.    But this seems weak.

[Deadmanwalking]

Perhaps have it reduce the Toughness abilities of anyone who you've used Divination magic to follow within the last day? Those would be designated 'prey', and it'd make logical sense.

[Drachasor]

Reading this again makes me think of Summer Knight. There is apparently a rule of sorts that denotes someone acting as a "tool" for another is not held responsible for their own actions.

That is, Toot and the other Little Folk were not held accountable for their actions, and the Alphas were also not held for their actions either (as was noted in "Something Borrowed"). Anyone that had a gripe about those things had to bring them up with Harry, and sidestepping that creates problems.

So. . .with this in mind, can you really consider trying to uphold a single groups laws (i.e. White Council's Laws of Magic) to a badged representative of a higher power (i.e. the Faerie Queens), when the higher power is actually the one responsible for those actions?

Again, just my line of thought, but it does lead to some interesting debates. . .

My recollection is that this was how the Fey views things, not how the accords were written.

[CBIrish]

After some more thought, here is my shot at Erlking's magic.

Drawing on the power of the Erlking, you are able to cast spells that fit his essential nature: wildness, the hunt, balefire, bloodlust, death.  This magic is under the sway and watch of the Erlking; making use of it will inevitably catch his notice. 

Cost:  4 refresh for the package, not to mention the approval of the Erlking.  Reduce this cost by 1 if you already have Evocation or Thaumaturgy; reduce the cost by 2 if you have both.

Benefits:  Standard sponsored magic benefits. 

In Addition, the Erlking's magic may be used as an element for evocation, allowing evocation effects that encourage wildness, the hunt, balefire, bloodlust, and death.  This includes the ability to produce effects along the lines of divination tracking spells but with an evocation spells methods and speed.  The Erlking's evocations always include the otherworldliness of the hunt in some way.  Vines to trap will have thorns, balefire is eerie and green, a tracking spell may scare near by animals.


I'm not sure of a Catch for the Erlking, nor if there is anything he'd effect more than normal.  I'm tempted to go with Winter, since the use of fire and the end of hunting in many places once winter starts make me associate the Erlking a little more with Summer.    But this seems weak.

If you're still looking for a Catch for the magic of the Erlking, go to a classic - let his sponsored magic be powerless against iron.  This will certainly have a greater effect in industrial areas, but if the character is in a park, the wilderness or even a botanical garden (all of which would be more in line with the general type of place one would hunt - i.e., nature) this is less of a draw back.  This would play to the strengths of the patron and likely the concept of the character and would force the character to resort to the other abilities they have.

Just a thought, but I hope it helps.

[Ophidimancer]

When thinking about wizardly applications of The Hunt, I kinda get the image of old magic, really really old magic.  Like caveman magic, where you emulate animals to gain their strengths or to pacify their spirits for the hunt.  Totemic magic, and stuff like nature themed entropomancy, where the plants, animals, and the weather turn against your target.

[babel2uk]

My recollection is that this was how the Fey views things, not how the accords were written.

Given that they Accords were written by Mab, I'd be inclined to think that the Fey view of them is entirely accurate.

The Laws of Magic are a separate entity. As far as I recall the Laws of Magic only apply to mortal magic. Sponsored Magic is generally not mortal magic, and in the case of Faerie magic it's definitely not. The users of sponsored magic already have restrictions on it's use without bringing the Laws in. The long and short of it is that if a user of sponsored magic breaks one of the laws, the White Council has no authority to do anything at all about it, unless the result is harmful to one of their members, and even then they have only limited power of redress under the Unseelie Accords. Of course if the sponsor isn't an Accords signatory, then the Council can do whatever they please to them, under whatever justification they like.

[MijRai]

Given that they Accords were written by Mab, I'd be inclined to think that the Fey view of them is entirely accurate.

The Laws of Magic are a separate entity. As far as I recall the Laws of Magic only apply to mortal magic. Sponsored Magic is generally not mortal magic, and in the case of Faerie magic it's definitely not. The users of sponsored magic already have restrictions on it's use without bringing the Laws in. The long and short of it is that if a user of sponsored magic breaks one of the laws, the White Council has no authority to do anything at all about it, unless the result is harmful to one of their members, and even then they have only limited power of redress under the Unseelie Accords. Of course if the sponsor isn't an Accords signatory, then the Council can do whatever they please to them, under whatever justification they like.

Well, if a human kills with magic, any magic, then that human has broken a Law of Magic. Now, whether or not the White Council can do anything is up for debate, but the Law was still broken.

As far as the Erlking's sponsored magic, there has been an update on his status!

It turns out, the Erlking is Titania's king. The King of Summer. He is the representation of the darker side of Summer, the hunters that end life compared to the bringers of life Summer is supposed to be.
I'd say he could cast magic related to fire, fear, hunger, air (that whole Autumn Wind stuff seems like it), or things that symbolize the hunt (tracking, mostly). The whole thaumaturgy at the speed of evocation thing would be useful for a hunter.

As far as who the Erlking would give this magic to? Real hunters (in the Erlking's eyes), possibly his worthy Changeling kin, etc. A White Court vampire is a true hunter, from what we see, and that would make a potent combination right there.

[babel2uk]

Well, if a human kills with magic, any magic, then that human has broken a Law of Magic. Now, whether or not the White Council can do anything is up for debate, but the Law was still broken.

That situation is explicitly covered in the rule book (the notes on page 236) which seem to indicate that with sponsored magic such as that used by the Sidhe Knights it would be the Accords which take precedence over the Laws of Magic. That's not to say they couldn't be inflicted with a Lawbreaker stunt, but personally I think sponsored magic is restrictive enough without bringing Lawbreaker into it. Arguably the taking on of sponsored magic has already changed a person fundamentally. OK, they don't get the penalties of the Lawbreaker Stunts, but they wouldn't get the benefits either. And the sponsor can act to prevent any breaches of the laws that the GM doesn't want to allow.

[Richard_Chilton]

I'm not sure how the recent "those being are the Kings" pronouncement by Jim will work out in the books.

I can't see Bob labeling the Erkling as Wild Fae by accident or getting something like that wrong.  Maybe he was a king, one that was overthrown or cast out, but he seems to be an intrinsic part of the Wild Fae now.  It's going to be interesting to see if they enter the novels...

That said, Jim has done a bit of retconning in the past.  Read the part on the Archive when she is introduced and then read what is given in Small Favors.  I could be wrong, but doesn't the first book have her absorbing all of her mother's memories when she was born? Then suddenly she got the memories after her mother's suicide.  The later bit gives the character more drama and pathos, but it is different.

(click to show/hide)

Then there's the Erkling's reaction to Mab's name in Changes.  Speaking of spoilers, shouldn't the whole "Jim just said..." bit be covered in spoiler black?

Who knows? Maybe Santa Claus will appear in Ghost Story - that would make as much sense as anything else.

Richard

[MijRai]

I'm not sure how the recent "those being are the Kings" pronouncement by Jim will work out in the books.

I can't see Bob labeling the Erkling as Wild Fae by accident or getting something like that wrong.  Maybe he was a king, one that was overthrown or cast out, but he seems to be an intrinsic part of the Wild Fae now.  It's going to be interesting to see if they enter the novels...

That said, Jim has done a bit of retconning in the past.  Read the part on the Archive when she is introduced and then read what is given in Small Favors.  I could be wrong, but doesn't the first book have her absorbing all of her mother's memories when she was born? Then suddenly she got the memories after her mother's suicide.  The later bit gives the character more drama and pathos, but it is different.

(click to show/hide)

Then there's the Erkling's reaction to Mab's name in Changes.  Speaking of spoilers, shouldn't the whole "Jim just said..." bit be covered in spoiler black?

Who knows? Maybe Santa Claus will appear in Ghost Story - that would make as much sense as anything else.

Richard

Or, like I said before, just being a King doesn't make you different. I could marry the Queen of England, but that doesn't make me English.

As far as the Archive, she got the Archive while still inside her mother, when her mother attempted suicide. She was born with them, since her mom basically killed herself with Ivy inside.

And the Erlking doesn't want the Queen of Air and Darkness in his lair, wow. I wouldn't want the President visiting my house, especially if I was from a different country.

[Richard_Chilton]

Or, like I said before, just being a King doesn't make you different. I could marry the Queen of England, but that doesn't make me English.

That would make you a consort - not a King.  A bit like Prince Philip is and Prince Albert was.  Interestingly enough Prince Philip wasn't given the highest rank of consort... Okay, maybe others don't find that as interesting as I do...

The way Jim is quoted as saying that bit about the Kings doesn't imply that those beings married one of the Queens but that they are Kings - embodying aspects of each court.  Just as the Queens each embody a part of the Courts the Kings embody other aspects of the Summer and Winter Courts.

Embodying an aspect of a Court is hard to do if you aren't part of those Courts.

Richard