Character Building Help?

[Viatos]

Yeah, there is that whole 7th law thing. 

No, there isn't. She's not a wizard of the White Council, and while Evocation puts her in a sticky place, she A) does not commit violations (she only represents one already committed) and B) is arguably not human. Using her abilities won't get her Lawbreaker, and while a wizard or Warden is unlikely to pick up flak for just killing her on general principle, she's not beholden to the Laws of Magic for her Sponsored Magic.

Evocation is an odd choice beside Sponsored Magic, though - why not just drop this for more Modular Abilities? You can just avoid incurring debt.

Human Guise is completely redundant; Unnatural Constitution is a little redundant. I agree with DMW that while it's not explicitly stated you can't stack Human Guise into Human Form, it's totally not okay to do so since it negates the point of Human Form. You just shift into your alternate form and walk around under Human Guise, which is pretty much getting a +1 for nothing.

I don't really agree about the focus items. The spirit of the game seems to me to be against stacking foci into enchanted items or Items of Power...but it's not a big issue. If a GM will let you get away with it and you don't mind losing the coolness of foci, go ahead and merge them. Otherwise your setup is the correct one.

I am also curious as to the details of your Sponsored Magic that make it -3 and not -4. As a GM this would be the first question I'd ask, a full write-up of your Sponsored Magic (areas of specialty, debt, et cetera).

[KOFFEYKID]

I disagree about the focus items + items of power. We see that you can put a focus item and a enchanted item together with the wardens swords. I'm willing to bet you can put focus items and items of power together as well.

[Viatos]

I disagree about the focus items + items of power. We see that you can put a focus item and a enchanted item together with the wardens swords. I'm willing to bet you can put focus items and items of power together as well.

Does this happen in Our World somewhere?

[KOFFEYKID]

Warden Swords
A Warden Sword is a mighty weapon. Enchanted by Captain Luccio to cut through anything (it counts as at least a Weapon:3 sword in all circumstances), and can be used as either a Weapon:6 item or a Fantastic (+6) counterspell 3 times/session.
A Warden Sword uses two enchanted item slots of the Warden that adopts it. Individual Wardens may also expend one or more focus item slots in order to “attune” his sword as a focus item for his evocations— though many prefer instead to rely on other foci for that task, given the Warden Sword’s strong anti-magic enchantment.
In her former body, Luccio’s stat block would include several extra enchanted item slots where she could “stash” extra Warden Swords as she manufactured them, until other Wardens “adopted” them as magic items taking up their own slots.
Her new body, while it still allows her to wield her own Sword, doesn’t have the power necessary to manufacture new ones. Therefore, the production of the Warden Swords has ceased. It will be a long and laborious process for anyone who tries to pick up where Luccio was forced to leave off.

[rickayelm]

What is the +1 average jane power, I can't seam to find it on my pdf?

[Viatos]

What is the +1 average jane power, I can't seam to find it on my pdf?

He means Human Form. Average Jane is a subsidiary ability granted by Human Form, reflecting your normal mortal "unpowered" form.

[Deadmanwalking]

I am also curious as to the details of your Sponsored Magic that make it -3 and not -4. As a GM this would be the first question I'd ask, a full write-up of your Sponsored Magic (areas of specialty, debt, et cetera).

The -3 is because she already has Evocation, reducing the cost by 1.

[Belial666]

OK, I'll go remove Human Guise.

@Sponsored Magic:
It's modeled on Hellfire. Spirit instead of fire, and different thaumaturgy focus. Just like Hellfire, it allows many thaumaturgies with the speed of evocation but you incur debt for them.

@7th Law:
When she uses Evocation, she is subject to the Laws of Magic because it's mortal magic but the wardens probably won't hunt her down. When she uses Sponsored Magic she is not subject to the Laws but if Wardens notice... bad things will happen.

[Deadmanwalking]

I'm not sure I agree with her being able to break the Laws with Sponsored Magic (though that's a debate for another thread...or several). On the other hand, unless she summons up Outsiders or something, I'm not sure how just using her Sponsored Magic or existing would inherently violate the Seventh Law.

[Belial666]

The 7th Law does not say "don't summon Outsiders". It says "Do not seek power or knowledge from beyond the Outer Gates".

Every single time Lily uses one of her powers (not just magic) is against the 7th law. However, Lily is not human; she won't get the Lawbreaker stunt. She WILL get attention from the White Council though, which might be just as bad.

[Deadmanwalking]

Debatably. Though personally, I'd say that she in no way sought this power...it was sorta thrust upon her, really.

Either way, it's really a matter of semantics and GM interpretation.

[Llayne]

The 7th law talks about 'cracks' in the outer gates, and every time power is used or information is gained about them, the cracks widen.

Quote from: Belial666 on Yesterday at 06:11:16 PM
Do note that common sense should apply to this. If she gets something passive like strength or toughness, she can keep it concealed until it becomes obvious from use. If she sprouts enough tentacles to fill an entire zone or grows to the size of a small house, it is kind of hard to keep them concealed even when not using them.


Actually that's not true, because you got the discount on Modular Abilities you must, in fact, look different whenever using it. That's the way it works.

So what ever happened to this part of the discussion? If she has the Human Form discount on Modular abilities, everytime she uses them she has to look in-human, even with powers that wouldn't ordinarily make her look inhuman, right?

[ahunting]

No, there isn't. She's not a wizard of the White Council, and while Evocation puts her in a sticky place, she A) does not commit violations (she only represents one already committed) and B) is arguably not human. Using her abilities won't get her Lawbreaker, and while a wizard or Warden is unlikely to pick up flak for just killing her on general principle, she's not beholden to the Laws of Magic for her Sponsored Magic.

You are correct that she not human and therefore cannot break the 7th law, but the poor fool that uses the site on her is certainly guilty.

[Belial666]

@Llayne:
The ability doesn't say that she has to look inhuman even for powers that don't make her look inhuman-just that she can't appear human and use powers at the same time. (I think)

That said, I plan to have her being recognizably nonhuman anyway (which is the point of the discount) but not monstrous (unless the power she uses requires it). I.e. when she uses sensory powers, her eyes will be black windows to the void. When she uses strength and speed, she'll look part shadow. When she uses toughness abilities, her image will be subtly warped, slightly off-key with time and reality.  For claws, wings, fangs, tentacles and stuff, it will be fully a physical shift.

The effect I want is one of noticeable otherworldliness; if a common mortal suddenly sees an animal (i.e. werewolf) they might be alarmed but not terrified. If they see a cute girl that gives a twilight-zone vibe, they will be scared even if she still looks like a girl. And for people in the know, that kind of "off" will be worse than a normal shapeshifter.

[Llayne]

Okay, maybe not 'inhuman' but you have to shape shift into something that doesn't appear human. To get the bonus you can't appear like a normal person and use your powers... in this case the modular abilities.

With just modular abilities and not Human form you'd look completely human. If you got Inhuman Strength/Speed/Toughness/Recovery youd just look completely human. Probably a lot of the sensory powers as well, like Echoes of the Beast and stuff you would still look human. Only when taking obvious physical changes would you look 'other than human.'

So my interpretation of taking Human Form is that any time you use Modular abilites at all you have to look something 'other than human.'

Given your description I can see how that'd work, but the difference would have to be clearly 'other than human' and unsettling. I'm getting images of the creepy girl from the Grudge and the tweaky lighting and movement effects they used for her.

Not to mention all the tentacled freaks from a hundred anime movies.