Swords of the Cross?

[Belial666]

One of the things that bugs me is the writeup for the swords of the cross. OK, they can negate toughness abilities. They're also slightly enhanced swords. Problem is, they don't really even the playing field; a superstrong enemy could make a Knight go splat with weapon 7 attacks (+4 for strength abilities, +3 or weapon modifier). A wizard could do the same with magic. A superfast opponent still gets the dodge bonus and could move in a zone, hit and move away a zone, forcing the Knight to take penalties to follow up. The Swords don't even help against supernatural mental attacks lik Domination or Incite Emotion.
And a dragon? They can fly over the landbound Knight and burn them to death with their breath weapon.

[Deadmanwalking]

So? Do you want Knights to be unbeatable? They clearly aren't, as of the books. Badass, yes, but also very human and vulnerable. They can kill just about anything, which is as it should be, but a Knight never takes a hit from something superhuman and shrugs it off, and as for mental attacks, well, their Conviction can handle most of those they should be resisting, and with Superb Weapons or so they can hit most stuff (even Inhumanly fast stuff).

[Viatos]

True Aim and ignoring Mythic Toughness/Recovery/Physical Immunity is actually quite a devastating suite of powers for -3 Refresh; there are relatively few statted creatures in Our World who can handle Fantastic attacks that satisfy their Catch.

As for heavyweights, remember that a Knight BECOMES one when directly empowered by God; this isn't something that should happen very often (about as often as you'd allow Extreme Consequences to be cleared is a good marker) but when it does they enter Plot Device territory and can expect a flurry of miracles to back them up in their endeavors. It's repeatedly noted that Michael Carpenter is more or less invulnerable and unstoppable when questing, only taking injury and risking failure when he works with Harry without divine mandate.

For player characters, the default abilities of Swords of the Cross are mostly fine, although faith powers are arguably a waste of refresh for meager and FP-dependent effects you can't afford anyway. I personally would say leave the Swords alone, but allow Champions of God to their -5 Refresh worth of Musts for Soulfire or a bunch of Conviction/Discipline Stunts of their design/choosing.

[Deadmanwalking]

Eh, Righteousness is pretty awesome. And Holy Touch and Guide My Hand is pretty cool. Bless This House is admittedly a bit lackluster, though.

For custom True Faith powers, the only one I've come up with is Faith Is My Shield (which duplicates A Few Seconds Ahead from OW p. 99 mechanically), which would be pretty cool for a low Athletics knight, actually.

[Esoteric]

True Aim and ignoring Mythic Toughness/Recovery/Physical Immunity is actually quite a devastating suite of powers for -3 Refresh; there are relatively few statted creatures in Our World who can handle Fantastic attacks that satisfy their Catch.

Oh and that's just the tip of the iceberg, because I think the book basically says that you are able to ignore the toughness and recovery suite of powers at a minimum. Based on the stuff I've seen in the books, and the fact it does say it lets you negate defensive abilities, I might even let it ignore the bonus the supernatural speed suite of powers gives to athletics to defend against the sword. And perhaps other things as well.

[Victim]

In many ways, the incredible coincidences that back up the Knights seem more like having tons of Fate Points to Invoke for Effect than real powers.

[Belial666]

How about this:

Divine Guidance [-4]
When a Knight of the Cross is on a holy mission and supported by the powers of Heaven, once per roll he may spend a free Fate Point. Knights may spend additional Fate points if they pray on a case by case basis but this accrues "debt" against the powers of Heaven much like using Sponsored Magic does.

It's similar to sponsored magic; a +2 bonus to doing their job much like various sponsored magics get bonuses. The bonus is wider but then again Knights don't get the 4 focus items that Sponsored Magic gives and they can't cast magic. They can get additional bonuses using the same debt mechanics sponsored magic does.

As for heavyweights, remember that a Knight BECOMES one when directly empowered

Nickodemus has killed more than a hundred knights over the centuries and the Knights not always succeed on their mission. The coincidences and miracles probably make them a lot stronger but not that powerful; otherwise the forces of Darkness would have been defeated long ago.

[Deadmanwalking]

I'd say Righteousness is enough for most purposes, actually.

An "I can acquire Sponsor Debt" on mundane actions seems reasonable enough as a power, though. I'd probably cost it at only -1 or -2 Refresh, though. I mean, Sponsored Magic only costs -4, and that's exactly the same as Channeling and Ritual.

Mostly there's no need, though, since (by their nature) Knights are going to be being Compelled like nobody's business all the damn time and accumulating huge stacks of Fate Points more-or-less for free in game terms (though likely quite expensively in more mundane ones). I know if I were playing a Knight I'd self-compel so often my GM's head would spin and accept basically any Compel offered.

[Wordmaker]

My Boston group has a Knight of the Cross and a member of the Ordo Malleus who's a True Believer, she's a civilian church administrator and investigative assistant for the Knights. In the Cathedral of the Holy Cross, the Ordo's New England HQ in my game, they raise it's threshold to 7, which is nothing to sneeze at.

Guide My Hand and Righteousness (which the Ordo member has) are both fantastic powers, especially with a high Conviction. The Ordo Malleus member has Superb Conviction, so those powers are especially useful for her.

As for the Knight, he's the group's big gun. He got taken out by a ghoul hit-team and hospitalised, but it took a concerted effort from them, and by the end of it they were hurt enough for the rest of the group to kill them.

[toturi]

Oh and that's just the tip of the iceberg, because I think the book basically says that you are able to ignore the toughness and recovery suite of powers at a minimum. Based on the stuff I've seen in the books, and the fact it does say it lets you negate defensive abilities, I might even let it ignore the bonus the supernatural speed suite of powers gives to athletics to defend against the sword. And perhaps other things as well.

At best, I'd let it break through wizard shields but not through defensive bonuses from supernatural speed. The way I see it, if the Knight can hit his enemy, the sword allows him to break through, but first he has to hit. Otherwise, there would not be much of a difference between Shiro and Michael.

[R4ph]

As for the Knight, he's the group's big gun. He got taken out by a ghoul hit-team and hospitalised, but it took a concerted effort from them, and by the end of it they were hurt enough for the rest of the group to kill them.

If they hadn't opened with 2 shots from a high powered sniper rifle while I wasn't wearing armour, I'd have handled them no problem.

-(The player in question)As for the Knight, he's the group's big gun. He got taken out by a ghoul hit-team and hospitalised, but it took a concerted effort from them, and by the end of it they were hurt enough for the rest of the group to kill them.