Question about throwing objects

[Joraus]

One of my players has the Supernatural power of well, supernatural strength. I am newer to being a GM and I would like your opinions on this. If he wants to pick up a couch and throw it at an opponent. What would its strength be, or how far he could throw it?

[Deadmanwalking]

Well, according to YS p. 321, using a Couch as a thrown weapon requires an effective Might of 9...so at least Good Might+Supernatural Strength. At that point, he could throw it a zone, as per any other thrown weapon. Any less than that and he'll be limited to throwing it a few feet and hitting someone in his own Zone.

As for Weapon rating, cars are Weapon: 5...so I'd go with about Weapon: 2 or 3 for a couch. That's on top of the Supernatural Strength damage bonus, of course. And, also of course, all actual rolls should done with the Weapons skill.

[Michael,HandofGod]

I love this system for making it possible to use furniture as thrown weapons.  As well as making it technically possible to use people as thrown weapons.

[Baron Hazard]

one fastball special comin' up... bub.

[John Galt]

I actually have a similar question.

So I'm building a sorcerer with a spirit specialization, which I've read as being the element one would use for magically throwing objects as well.  I want him to be able to magically throw his weapons of choice (Kukri knives) without a high weapons skill (+1).  He basically just has them because he's a mercenary and he doesn't like breaking any of the seven laws for obvious reasons.  (he likes to subdue his opponents with grapples, sneak up on them from behind and slit their throats).  So I know how to do a brute force spirit attack, but I'm wondering if there's any benefit to spending power to throw his weapon 2 knives, and if so, how I stat out the spell.  The way I'd personally do it is stat it as a brute force attack with a -1 power discount since it's a weapon 2 (kind of like the armor stacking house rules) but I'm not sure if that makes the spell overpowered or if that's explicitly against the rules.

The other way to do it is throw them and use his conviction or discipline score as a weapons score.  I think that makes more sense but I'd rather do it the above way because I think this way requires a stunt and even if it doesn't, he's in a over powered submerged game so a simple weapon 2 attack would be fairly useless when he has a mental stress free weapon 4 attack.

Thanks in advance.

[luminos]

Is there a reason to use either of those two ways?  I mean, why not just use a normal spell that is flavored as using magic to throw the knives?  If you really must, house rule in the first method.

[John Galt]

Is there a reason to use either of those two ways?  I mean, why not just use a normal spell that is flavored as using magic to throw the knives?  If you really must, house rule in the first method, but all these attempts I'm seeing at making the most badass character possible, and bending the rules to do so in many cases, kind of misses the whole point of the DFRPG in my opinion, which is to tell a good story. 

All the attempts by me personally or in general?  I think this is my only attempt at making the most badass character possible.  My other characters were created specifically to fit an interesting story I had written for them.  And as to why I'm trying to make this guy as badass as possible?  Because my GM asked the players to do exactly that.  He wants to run that kind of game (over the top epic, submerged).  I realize he completely abuses the evocation spin rules and trying to give him even more discounts by being able to magically throw knives is over the top, but that's literally what the GM asked me to do. 

[EldritchFire]

I actually have a similar question.

So I'm building a sorcerer with a spirit specialization, which I've read as being the element one would use for magically throwing objects as well.  I want him to be able to magically throw his weapons of choice (Kukri knives) without a high weapons skill (+1).  He basically just has them because he's a mercenary and he doesn't like breaking any of the seven laws for obvious reasons.  (he likes to subdue his opponents with grapples, sneak up on them from behind and slit their throats).  So I know how to do a brute force spirit attack, but I'm wondering if there's any benefit to spending power to throw his weapon 2 knives, and if so, how I stat out the spell.  The way I'd personally do it is stat it as a brute force attack with a -1 power discount since it's a weapon 2 (kind of like the armor stacking house rules) but I'm not sure if that makes the spell overpowered or if that's explicitly against the rules.

The other way to do it is throw them and use his conviction or discipline score as a weapons score.  I think that makes more sense but I'd rather do it the above way because I think this way requires a stunt and even if it doesn't, he's in an over powered submerged game so a simple weapon 2 attack would be fairly useless when he has a mental stress free weapon 4 attack.

Thanks in advance.

First off, don't worry about what the weapon is. The magic is doing the damage, so it's all part of the shifts of power used in the spell. For a rules reference, check out the section on falling, YS319, " If  your force-bolt “uppercuts” a guy so he flies up and then falls back down with a crunch of bone, the damage dealt by the attack itself accounts for the “fall back down” part—essentially, in this case, falling is a special effect, a detail of color."

So the knife is just "colour" for the spell.

If you really want the kukri to matter, than I'd say get a bit better weapon skill, and use spirit magic for a manoeuvre. Give yourself the "magically propelled kukri" aspect, and on your next turn throw the kukri and tag the aspect for a +2 to the attack roll.

If you hit, the kukri does a base of 2 stress, as per the weapon.

Whichever one you use works just fine in the rules. The first is better if you have a low weapon skill--which you do--while the second is if you want your weapon to matter.

-EF

[John Galt]

Hey, thanks Eldrich.  I really like the second idea.  Can you help me stat that out?  I'm new to spellcasting and I'm not entirely sure how the stress would effect that.  I'd like it to be a 4 stress or lower attack though, if that's possible.

Thanks again.

[EldritchFire]

Hey, thanks Eldrich.  I really like the second idea.  Can you help me stat that out?  I'm new to spellcasting and I'm not entirely sure how the stress would effect that.  I'd like it to be a 4 stress or lower attack though, if that's possible.

Thanks again.

Well, the first thing to do is to get a bit better weapon skill. I'd recommend a 3 or so. After that, just cast the spirit spell to add the "magically propelled kukri" aspect to yourself.

From then on, you can tag that aspect once (remember, tagging is free), and spend a fate point at any time thereafter to use it again...or just recast the spell.

The manoeuvre is a 3-shift spell, per YS252: "By default, pulling off most maneuvers requires 3 shifts of power..."

So if you have a conviction and discipline of 3 or higher, you can even use it as a rote! Well, your conviction doesn't need to be 3 to use it as a rote...it just means it's a 1-stress spell.

If you're starved for fate points, keep casting the spell with no roll required. Remember, rotes allow you to cast a spell as if you rolled a 0 on your discipline. Rolling is only needed if you need to target something. But you're casting it on yourself, so it's all good!

If your conviction is high enough--or you have enough focus items--you can actually give yourself the same aspect multiple times with one casting. A 6-shift spell would give you two tags, for example. Not too hard to do if your conviction is 5, and you have a +1 offensive control focus bonus.

Hope that helps!

-EF

[CMEast]

Heh, I spent ages working through a similar problem with my fists as magic weapons, though they were pretty much my char's only attack spell and had to be in close combat. Still, it's a very similar issue so some of the solutions suggested may suit you too.

For instance, you could call it a breath weapon, -2 refresh,
"You can attack targets up to one zone away from you with your breath weapon. Roll Weapons; if you hit, you deal +2 physical stress (essentially, this is a thrown Weapon:2 that you can self-generate). As with any weapon, you might be able to use your breath to perform combat manoeuvres if you can justify it, setting temporary aspects on the scene or on your opponent."

Then just re-flavour the breath weapon as telekinetically guided kukri so that you can use discipline to roll to hit and you're done.

The benefit to doing this is that a) it's totally stress free, b) you generate the projectile in some way and c) you can split between two targets and still get the Weapon:2 effect I think. Of course, it does cost 2 refresh...

[EldritchFire]

Heh, I spent ages working through a similar problem with my fists as magic weapons, though they were pretty much my char's only attack spell and had to be in close combat. Still, it's a very similar issue so some of the solutions suggested may suit you too.

For instance, you could call it a breath weapon, -2 refresh,
"You can attack targets up to one zone away from you with your breath weapon. Roll Weapons; if you hit, you deal +2 physical stress (essentially, this is a thrown Weapon:2 that you can self-generate). As with any weapon, you might be able to use your breath to perform combat manoeuvres if you can justify it, setting temporary aspects on the scene or on your opponent."

Then just re-flavour the breath weapon as telekinetically guided kukri so that you can use discipline to roll to hit and you're done.

The benefit to doing this is that a) it's totally stress free, b) you generate the projectile in some way and c) you can split between two targets and still get the Weapon:2 effect I think. Of course, it does cost 2 refresh...

Huh, I must have missed that part of the conversation. That's actually pretty cool!

-EF

[John Galt]

The problem is that that's a complete waste of 2 refresh if you're playing at submerged with evocation spin rules.  You can easily get a free weapon 3 attack, and if you feel like trying to exploit the rule, you pretty easily get a weapons 5 attack that costs no mental stress. 

[EldritchFire]

The problem is that that's a complete waste of 2 refresh if you're playing at submerged with evocation spin rules.  You can easily get a free weapon 3 attack, and if you feel like trying to exploit the rule, you pretty easily get a weapons 5 attack that costs no mental stress. 

True. However, there is no reason to assume they are playing with evocation spin. It's a houserule. Especially on message boards like this one, it's best to assume they're playing by-the-book, unless specified otherwise. It's just easier that way  ^_^

Still, the ability to use a power with no mental stress is pretty powerful, even in a submerged-level game...well, unless there's not too much combat. But in a game with the amount of combat seen in the books, I think it's a pretty good use of refresh. Still, you could use that 2 refresh to take refinement twice and make your spellcasting more BA.

However, using the breath weapon instead of casting a spell means you can use it each exchange--every exchange--and it's not costing you stress. If you go with the manoeuvre idea, you can't throw your kukri every exchange, unless you spend a fate point. As a "breath weapon" it's every exchange, no stress.

It's all a matter of personal preference.

-EF

[John Galt]

yeah, but the maneuver costs 3 shifts to do weapon 2 damage that's blocked by athletics instead of endurance.  Also if I've spent all my mental stress boxes on more powerful casting, I can use my fate points to use the knife like a magically wielded boomerang that does my damage for me.  At least that's how I'm interpreting it.