Temporary magical weapons: What's the best way?

[Baron Hazard]

This is my main concern... maybe "at skill 5+, 1-2 shift powers cost no stress." as opposed to just 3 over...

[Wordmaker]

But you wouldn't have to spend a Fate Point every time you swing the sword, just every time you wanted some real "oomph" from it. Like hiding behind a car for cover. You don't have to spend a Fate Point every time you're shot at, only the times you need to call on the narrative protection of the car being between you and your attacker.

[Deadmanwalking]

This is my main concern... maybe "at skill 5+, 1-2 shift powers cost no stress." as opposed to just 3 over...

I think the version I like best is that you can channel up to your Power Specialization in a particular Element for free...though that wouldn't help CMEast's particular character too much.

[CMEast]

Wordmaker: So then how do you see 'Flaming Sword' or 'Fists of Chi' working as aspects then? Do you mean that a person could use the aspect with a fate point to get +2 on their attack role every so often, but otherwise attack normally? Would a character that didn't previously have a sword, now be able to use the weapon skill when rolling to attack without invoking Flaming Sword?

My Wizard-Blooded Martial Artist can already use his high-concept with a fate point to get a +2 on attack, otherwise he uses his fists. How would creating an additional 'Chi focus' aspect change the conflict in any way apart from taking up a standard action and the one free tag following that?

-------------

DMW. I think that sounds fair to me, again it doesn't help my situation much, but it does at least give people a reason why they might use weaker spells and it also helps when a wizard runs out of mental stress... but I don't know if a wizard should be helped in that regard really.

[Baron Hazard]

DMW... I love you.

...

in a strictly plutonic sort of way of course >_>

[Deadmanwalking]

DMW... I love you.

...

in a strictly plutonic sort of way of course >_>

Noted. 


And it wasn't originally my idea, just one I ran across...somewhere on this board, a while back. I think in the first thread I ran into with the Evocation Spin rule in it, actually. It's just my preferred balance-point if you think spellcasters should have access to no-Stress-cost effects, and a fairly elegant solution, IMO.

[feliscon]

Eh, it can get bad. I mean, my current Warden on the PBP Forum could get Weapon: 4 effects using that rule...which seems to make mundane combat, with blade or gun (something Wardens clearly need to use in the books) somewhat obsolete and unnecessary.

In the books Harry specifically says that Wardens carry the swords because they're not allowed to kill with magic... Also, Luccio uses her 'needle of fire' as her weapon of choice, which Harry describes as "fire magic not unlike my own, but infinitely more intense and focused and far more energy efficient." I think if you have Epic control, a 4 shift rote without stress is reasonable. It seems fairly standard for more experienced casters to be able to do that kind of thing.


Also, if you're going to base it on specialisations rather than Spin, surely Control makes more sense than Power?

[Deadmanwalking]

In the books Harry specifically says that Wardens carry the swords because they're not allowed to kill with magic...

Sure, but that doesn't explain the use of guns, swords, and grenades in actual battle (something that clearly occurs...look at the fight scene at the end of Dead Beat. Or the duel in White Night).

Also, Luccio uses her 'needle of fire' as her weapon of choice, which Harry describes as "fire magic not unlike my own, but infinitely more intense and focused and far more energy efficient." I think if you have Epic control, a 4 shift rote without stress is reasonable. It seems fairly standard for more experienced casters to be able to do that kind of thing.

Luccio does precisely that...but I'm not clear that she doesn't take Mental Stress from it. The 'more energy efficient' might just be noting that she does 9 shifts of energy without frying her brain or the surroundings. She certainly uses it infrequently enough that that's what it could be. Also, she likely has a Power specialty of at least 3, so even if you want it to be Stress-free it's doable with my suggestion.

What we don't see is Ramirez using such things when he's low on energy...we see him either dissolving things with Weapon: 6 entropy blasts or shooting a gun, which considering it's Weapon: 3 and he has only Fair or Good Skill, makes no sense at all if he could do Weapon: 3 Water Evocations with his effective Skill of Fantastic.

Also, if you're going to base it on specialisations rather than Spin, surely Control makes more sense than Power?

Not really, no. The point is that you can channel X power so easily that you don't even take Stress. Power Specialization makes more sense for that, as well as making Power a bit more useful (which it needs more than Control does).

[feliscon]

Hmmm... Fair points. I would consider the specialisation rule as an alternative, but I think that the ES rule is still preferable given it's nice tie in to existing Fate rules. Who knows? I haven't actually played much, with practical experience I may change my mind...

For now I think I'll use ES if possible, with the specialisation as an alternative to offer to GMs who don't like ES.

[GoldenH]

I wouldn't be surprised if such things are not people using multi-turn Evocation Attacks. So, you're still paying a point of Stress for the spell, you just don't have to pay one this turn. I'm rather surprised there aren't rules for it, I see no reason why DOTs shouldn't exist in the dresdenverse (though I'd not have them give more DPStress than any other attack).

[Wordmaker]

Wordmaker: So then how do you see 'Flaming Sword' or 'Fists of Chi' working as aspects then? Do you mean that a person could use the aspect with a fate point to get +2 on their attack role every so often, but otherwise attack normally? Would a character that didn't previously have a sword, now be able to use the weapon skill when rolling to attack without invoking Flaming Sword?

My Wizard-Blooded Martial Artist can already use his high-concept with a fate point to get a +2 on attack, otherwise he uses his fists. How would creating an additional 'Chi focus' aspect change the conflict in any way apart from taking up a standard action and the one free tag following that?

Whether a summoned ethereal weapon would be used with Fists or Weapons depends on the weapon and the group.

As for your martial artist, maybe using your High Concept is how he empowers his punches. Or, he could create the Aspect "Chi Focus," and use the free tag along with an invoke of "Wizard-Blooded Martial Artist" for a whopping +4 to his Fists result.

Come to think of it, if you've got the time to prepare, you could stack up several Aspects on yourself through evocation maneuvers for one massively powerful attack from your free tags. Very Dragonball Z!

[Falar]

I think the version I like best is that you can channel up to your Power Specialization in a particular Element for free...though that wouldn't help CMEast's particular character too much.

DMW - this option is like the total rock and awe. I just had to say it. It's so much more elegant and ... I dunno ... sensible than the spin rule. I like it a lot!

[CMEast]

From http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,17367.0.html

Rituals: Biomancy would be full of things like supercharging your muscles (an effect that gives you, say, Weapon:2 with your bare hands for a couple scenes) and so on. For people to say "biomancy is only effective if it gives me full shapeshifting for a cheaper cost than the people who are actual shapeshifters and have paid to be that" is both missing the point and angling for a way to cheat (the latter, hopefully, unintentional).

Ok, so one last time on this topic I promise I'm debating whether to just take claws as a supernatural power simply because I dislike house rules. I did find this little gem from iago which means it IS possible to create a ritual like this, any idea as to how I go about it as, quite frankly, I'm still trying to get my head around calculating complexity for thaumaturgy.  My character has a conviction and lore of 2 and a discipline of 4. For instance if I cast the spell so that it lasted for the day, where is an appropriate place to start counting time increments from to work out the shifts required for duration?

Thanks again

[Wordmaker]

Here's a fairly simple ritual I worked out for you:

Empower Chi Strikes
This ritual is based on ancient Shaolin medication techniques, combined with western magical practices to make up for a lack of in-depth knowledge of eastern mysticism. It allows the caster to focus their chi into an efficient, brutal energy field around his hands and fists, which is then triggered by the correct fighting moves in combat.

Complexity: 4
Duration: One Scene
Effect: The caster may use Fists to make Weapon:2 attacks
Notes: I based the complexity as follows:

• 2 Shifts for each level of Weapon
• 1 Shift for a "stunt" allowing the caster to use Fists to direct the attack
• 1 Shift to change the duration from Exchange to Scene.

If you wanted to make it a little easier to cast, you could remove the requirement for the shift to let the caster use Fists for the attack.

[feliscon]

• 2 Shifts for each level of Weapon
• 1 Shift for a "stunt" allowing the caster to use Fists to direct the attack
• 1 Shift to change the duration from Exchange to Scene.

If you wanted to make it a little easier to cast, you could remove the requirement for the shift to let the caster use Fists for the attack.

That makes it sound like 4 shifts for Weapon: 2 rather than one shift per Weapon point, and I don't think you need the 'stunt' anyway, saying it uses Fists to attack is within the rules already and in fact technically makes it less effective for most casters as it limits the range to within the same zone. I also think that the ritual would probably have 15 mins/one scene as the basic duration and increase from there with extra shifts applied to duration.