What are the Pub's Positive Patterns?

[Paynesgrey]

Wouldn't say they're useless or unfriendly, nor without friendship, but does "Vord Versus Zergs, who would win" offer much for somone who's cat just died?

[Kali]

Maybe not.  Your point, repeatedly, has been that without the shoulder-to-cry-on threads, we have no sense of community.  I dispute that.  I understand if you, personally, only feel connected to people with whom you've shared personal life details.  But I know I, and I assume some others since I can't imagine I'm that unique, keep coming back here for shared interests like the Author boards, a bunch of threads in Media Favorites, and the laughs from LOLCats, among other threads.   My sense of community from this board has nothing to do with the more personal threads.  It does for some, plainly, but your post indicates it's the ONLY way to foster that sense of community.

This is incorrect.

[Priscellie]

Folks on the McAnally's Facebook page have been raising some great points, and I want to make sure they're a part of this discussion. http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?topic=13981&post=63531&uid=124949158964

[Landing]

Maybe not.  Your point, repeatedly, has been that without the shoulder-to-cry-on threads, we have no sense of community.  I dispute that.  I understand if you, personally, only feel connected to people with whom you've shared personal life details.  But I know I, and I assume some others since I can't imagine I'm that unique, keep coming back here for shared interests like the Author boards, a bunch of threads in Media Favorites, and the laughs from LOLCats, among other threads.   My sense of community from this board has nothing to do with the more personal threads.  It does for some, plainly, but your post indicates it's the ONLY way to foster that sense of community.

This is incorrect.

I am pretty sure Paynesgrey was talking about there not being any community when he was rebutting a poster who believe that everything except the book stuff should be done away with, not that the only way to have a community on the forum was to have crying on a shoulder type stuff. (Paynesgrey can of course correct me if I am wrong  )

[Blaze]

I would like to suggest that we do have a SCAdians section, especially because many of us SCA peeps get together at events and bring our Dresden Files fandom there.  While we may not post regularly there is usually a flurry before big events.

Mostly, we should be more appreciative of Fred's grace in hosting these boards, and we should all remember to apply some of the rules of courtesy that the world at large has forgotten about.

When speaking regarding fellow posters always try to apply simple rules to what you have to say: 

Is it necessary?  Is it kind?

It is in this way that we can thank Fred for giving us all a second chance.

[Kali]

I am pretty sure Paynesgrey was talking about there not being any community when he was rebutting a poster who believe that everything except the book stuff should be done away with, not that the only way to have a community on the forum was to have crying on a shoulder type stuff. (Paynesgrey can of course correct me if I am wrong  )

Possibly, but most of the initial (very well-written and impassioned) post was about the advice and sympathy threads alone, and that's what I'm responding to.

[Shecky]

As I see it, the problem comes down to a two-sided coin:

1) Community. There IS a bond that has arisen from the nonsense/fun/support/nonessential subforums here. I can honestly say that, sight unseen, there are a passel o' people who post on this site whom I would back up unreservedly, with fists, weapons, money or reputation, sight unseen, if the people needed help. I've made some real-life friends from here. (*edit* Darn auto-clicking the Post button instead of Save.) Anyway, as much as I enjoy Jim's work (and I do!), a straight-up book club wouldn't hold much interest for me except around the time of book release, and I LIKE the people around here, so I like hanging out with them and doing the dumb junk that friends do.

2) Human bloody-mindedness. Some people are born jerks. Some have jerkhood thrust upon them. When someone who takes great pride in being a jerk (often in the guise of I'm Just Being Honest) comes in and starts stirring up the pot for their own twisted entertainment, the aforementioned community knee-jerks into DANGER! ALERT! INCOMING JACKHOLE! active defense. I've done it before, almost certainly too often. While I'm not necessarily sorry I did it, I do apologize for it, because that's not what this forum was intended for. But it's people like me who reflexively go after people acting like jerks who allow that bloody-mindedness to blossom; what better way to showcase one's jerkitude than against someone who thinks they're a righteous defender? We fall into the trap, again and again, and with something like Changes getting under a lot of people's thin-skinned fingernails (please pardon the horrible mixed metaphor), the squawkers have been coming out in droves. All of which makes for a forum that's a verbal killing ground, which has nothing to do with the board's original design intent.

And now a third side of the coin for good measure and typical WTFness:

3) Lack of filter. I'm guilty of it, as are most of the prolific posters. We tend to post what we think, rapid-fire. BAD news. A lot of what's been happening lately, far from being strife, has been people going WAY past the line of what's generally acceptable on a PG forum (Parental Guidance, not you, Paynesgrey ). We're just not stopping and thinking, "Hey, is this something that everyone on here who isn't an utterly unreasonable twit can at least tolerate, or are there potentially strong EW factors that I just haven't considered?" I've never believed a public forum should HAVE to be cleaner than what you see on prime-time network (NOT cable) TV, but we should at least try to take the high road. Which definitely incriminates my posts about cat barf.

[Paynesgrey]

Maybe not.  Your point, repeatedly, has been that without the shoulder-to-cry-on threads, we have no sense of community.  I dispute that.  I understand if you, personally, only feel connected to people with whom you've shared personal life details.  But I know I, and I assume some others since I can't imagine I'm that unique, keep coming back here for shared interests like the Author boards, a bunch of threads in Media Favorites, and the laughs from LOLCats, among other threads.   My sense of community from this board has nothing to do with the more personal threads.  It does for some, plainly, but your post indicates it's the ONLY way to foster that sense of community.

This is incorrect.

It's not the only way for everyone Kali, but I think it is for many here.  I don't know how many forums I've been to for books, authors, hobbies, movies and the like, but I've never found one like this forum, anywhere, ever.  I've seen Troll Havens where the L33T bash and trash the Ingorant Noobs, I've seen plenty with pleasant aquaintances chatting pleasantly about On Topic Matters, but I've not seen the type of friendship and belonging or wide-ranging inclusiveness I've seen here.  That suggests that there's something in the broth that's different.  Might be just the Healing Power of Jim, but I think the membership and general style had something to do with it.

For some people, intelligent and mannered conversation about the books is all the sense of community they need.  But others have different interests and needs, and came looking not just for people to chat about the books with, but for friends.  I daresay even more didn't know they were looking for friends when they got here, but stayed because of what they found in addition to thoughtful and/or entertaining discussions of Jim's writing.  Some people need a broth with more, fish and fowl and good red meat.  Hell, I'm an ill tempered, cynical bastard, but on more than one occassion I've had my day made by reading some random act of kindness conversations around here.  Just seeing people being nice, trying to help someone who was hurting, has elevated the value of this forum for me by an order of magnitude so I can only imagine what it's done for those people who found themselves recieving good wishes and advice.  And I remember when I was younger, pretty much shunned and isolated, awkward and shy.  (Now that I've led a life and grown into myself, I'm a Power Cat Super Stud of Leisurely Coolness.)  But I know how much I would have valued all the aspects of this community 30 years ago.  And I'd say it's a safe bet there are people using these forums who are wearing shoes that would have fit me perfectly all those years ago.  And I will whup wholesale ass on anyone who shines my tarnished reputation by repeating all this nice, positive shit I"m saing this outside tis thread.  (Ok, I won't whup any ass, but I'll be very disapointed in you.)

I do realize that it does make more work for the mods, which is why I'm asking people for suggestions on how to alleviate that while not limiting the forum to Happy Stuff Only, Book Stuff Only, and LoL Cats.

I think that without a corner where people can seek and offer advice and compassion on non-book matters, provide or receive a shoulder cry on, this forum will be a much colder place if they're being told "I'm sorry about your cat, but this forum is to talk about whether The Accords deal specifically with the matter of Harry's shoe size."  

[Paynesgrey]

I would like to suggest that we do have a SCAdians section, especially because many of us SCA peeps get together at events and bring our Dresden Files fandom there.  While we may not post regularly there is usually a flurry before big events.

Mostly, we should be more appreciative of Fred's grace in hosting these boards, and we should all remember to apply some of the rules of courtesy that the world at large has forgotten about.

When speaking regarding fellow posters always try to apply simple rules to what you have to say: 
It is in this way that we can thank Fred for giving us all a second chance.

How about "Is it something you'd say sitting next to Jim?"    

[C.T. Adams]

I find that the LolCritters made my day, often helping me out a lot when I was having a particularly cruddy day at work. 

[Paynesgrey]

Well, everything is better with kittens.

[Shecky]

How about "Is it something you'd say sitting next to Jim?"    

(Psst: Not a good argument for me. I have no shame whatsoever. )

[iago]

Keeping the community element is important to me.  I'm working with folks over on the forum thread to identify how to create that feeling but "spin" it as positively as possible. I've seen what the community has done for Jim over the course of more than a decade, so keep that in mind: The policies and decisions I enact are for the health of both. What's good (and reflects well upon) Jim? What's good (and healthy for) the community?

I'm close to feeling like I've gotten the exploration of perspectives that I needed from this thread. Let's do a couple more pages of on-point discussion and then call it enough.

[Paynesgrey]

I think this has been mentioned, but instead of "angst corner", a "Helping Hands" thread?  It's pointed in a positive direction with such a name, and with a little friendly policing, "be nice, or be dog food" maybe we could keep it from spinning out of yuck again.

[Shecky]

Keeping the community element is important to me.  I'm working with folks over on the forum thread to identify how to create that feeling but "spin" it as positively as possible. I've seen what the community has done for Jim over the course of more than a decade, so keep that in mind: The policies and decisions I enact are for the health of both. What's good (and reflects well upon) Jim? What's good (and healthy for) the community?

I'm close to feeling like I've gotten the exploration of perspectives that I needed from this thread. Let's do a couple more pages of on-point discussion and then call it enough.

Fair enough.

One thing you might want to consider is starting out a little strict, restricting threads to the main generalities already outlined in this thread, and then relaxing in individual areas as long as behavior stays within reasonably acceptable parameters (i.e., no blood drawn).