How To Stat Sleeping Powder

[CyberMusketeer]

One of my players is trying to create a fist full of sleeping powder as an enchanted item.  Currently, we have it stated as an attack with taken out / consequences just being narrated accordingly.  He will need a skill to target it (blowing it in their face is the described action) so we're leaning toward Stealth (since he's trying to be sneaky about it) but I could also see it being Weapons.  IMO, the damage is against the physical stress track, though the player was pushing for mental. 

How would the rest of you handle this item?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

[Deadmanwalking]

I'd definitely go with it being Weapons. Stealth is never an attack skill normally, and I see no justification for that changing in this item. I might allow it to target Mental Stress, though. Aside from that, I'd say that looks about right.

[Papa Gruff]

I'd definitely go with it being Weapons. Stealth is never an attack skill normally, and I see no justification for that changing in this item. I might allow it to target Mental Stress, though. Aside from that, I'd say that looks about right.

I concur. Seems like a weapon to me too. Not sure on the type of action though. Perhaps it could be treated as a long term block, since that seems to be possible with enchanted items... Are you treating it as an enchanted item or as a potion?

[CyberMusketeer]

I concur. Seems like a weapon to me too. Not sure on the type of action though. Perhaps it could be treated as a long term block, since that seems to be possible with enchanted items... Are you treating it as an enchanted item or as a potion?

We were building it as an enchanted item.  I considered doing it as a block, but it didn't feel right.  The desired effect was the person hit with it would be out of the scene until they 'woke up'.  This sounded like a taken out / concession result, so we didn't spent a whole lot of time debating how to work it as a block.  Also a block that was pretty much 'you can't do anything' seemed pretty harsh if I turned it against the players and once the item is out there, it's possible it could fall into the wrong hands.

I know Stealth isn't usually used as an attack, but the character using this powder would have no reason to have the Weapons skill outside this item.  The character isn't the physical type, and this is meant to be an ace up the sleeve type move.  Seemed harsh to push for a new skill to support that.

[Kordeth]

We were building it as an enchanted item.  I considered doing it as a block, but it didn't feel right.  The desired effect was the person hit with it would be out of the scene until they 'woke up'.  This sounded like a taken out / concession result, so we didn't spent a whole lot of time debating how to work it as a block.  Also a block that was pretty much 'you can't do anything' seemed pretty harsh if I turned it against the players and once the item is out there, it's possible it could fall into the wrong hands.

That's definitely a taken out result, you're right. The "block against anything" version is probably too powerful, unless you treat it like the grapple rules and require the character to tag or invoke a relevant Aspect to initiate the maneuver.

I know Stealth isn't usually used as an attack, but the character using this powder would have no reason to have the Weapons skill outside this item.  The character isn't the physical type, and this is meant to be an ace up the sleeve type move.  Seemed harsh to push for a new skill to support that.

Makes sense, and there's precedent for non-traditional attack skills with enchanted items (Harry gets to use Discipline instead of Guns to aim and fire his force ring, after all). I'd probably say Deceit was the more appropriate skill for a surprise "ace up the sleeve" attack, though.

[crusher_bob]

Deceit is probably a better choice for targeting, over stealth, since deceit covers small hand movements like picking pockets and stage magic, while stealth is much more about moving the whole body around.  Or, if trying to do it in combat, fists is a good alternative skill.

[luminos]

This is an off the wall idea, but you might want to make it a "grapple" that is opposed by alertness.  That would restrict the guys actions the way you want to, and it would have the thematic element of actually putting him asleep.  As for the skill used to apply it, if you use it in combat, it should absolutely be fists or weapons being used.  Otherwise, I agree with crusher about using deceit to use it.

[Deadmanwalking]

Well, if Weapons isn't appropriate Discipline always is. It's more-or-less the default attack skill for magic anyway, so it makes sense.

[GoldenH]

Sounds like a Maneuver to me. It doesn't make any sense for you to get a little bit sleepy with each dose of sleeping powder; either it's enough to knock you out, eventually, or you're badass enough to ignore it. And there's no way it'd take 3 or 4 'doses' of sleeping powder to put someone to sleep, that seems decidedly un-cinematic. (Though it works with tranq darts)

[devonapple]

I created some mercenary opposition wielding tranquilizer darts to set against my players last night.

In this case, I opted to call it a Weapons Maneuver to place the Aspect 'Fighting to Stay Awake,' which I then Compelled with a Fate Point to make the player lose their action. I didn't feel confident either a) taking the player out completely, or b) spending a few FPs to keep the player tied up for a few rounds.

An NPC friend who also got tranq'd was taken out of the combat, and would stay that way until one of the players succeeded in removing that Aspect.

I suspect I was being too nice?

[Drashna]

Look at the Mind Fog example thaumaturgical spell.  Use an manuever to apply an aspect that will be immediately compelled.

[Nyarlathotep5150]

    A similar thread came up some time ago about the mechanics of sleep spells. And this was my favorite build for it.
    If, as you seem to be saying, the target can be awakened, I don't see any reason to go through the work of making it a taken out result. Unless the enemies are refusing to take consequences, taken out results are alot of shifts worth of spell power.
    I wouldn't even make it an attack. Just make a spell a maneuver to place the Sticky Aspect "Fighting to Stay Awake" (devonapple gave the best wording I've seen so far) on the target. On your next turn, tag the aspect for effect to put the target to sleep. Anyone who takes an action to remove the Sticky aspect is effectively trying to wake the target.
     Poof! a passable sleep spell for almost no shifts.

[Belial666]

Spells and items like that would be physical stress if they are poisons/biomancy and mental stress if they are straight spiritual effects.


However, I disagree with people saying a stress-based item or spell is not worth the trouble. Consider that a wizard would attack with Discipline (presumably +4 at least and usually +5) or even his own control roll for a spell (+6 for most beginner wizards but as high as +10 for a submerged mind-mage) and enemy defends with Discipline. Also consider that the effect would be a Weapon 4 mental attack for an enchanted item based on Lore, a weapon 6 mental attack for a stunner/sleepining spell from a beginner wizard and as much as weapon 8-10 deep slumber spell from a submerged mindmage. How many enemies have a full mental stress track and high discipline to boot?


Against an average enemy (discipline defense of 3) the enchanted item would do on average 5-6 mental stress, the sleep spell would do 9 mental stress and the mind-mage's slumber spell would do as much as 15 mental stress. So all of them would at least deal one consequence - which in addition to being taggable, it is ALSO an aspect that can be compelled even if the spell does not acheive take-out.

[babel2uk]

The skill you'd use to deliver the powder would depend on the way you were delivering it. I'd not allow stealth as an attack skill itself, but you could consider it as a modifier to the skill you are using.

As far as effects go, I think Belial666 has covered why it should deal stress rather than simply be a maneuver or a block. I'd agree also that you could attack either the mental or the physical track depending on how you view the powder working. If it's designed to simply put the mind into sleep mode then use the mental track, or you could have it drawing energy out of the body - basically targetting the opponent's endurance - until it is forced to sleep.

[noclue]

If you're slipping the powder into someone's drink, I would not use Weapons. Deceit sounds like the right fit (possibly modified by Stealth?).

If your trying hit them in the face with it, that sounds like Weapons to me.