Preparing for the Game: Your Approaches

[Crion]

I don't know about most of the people on this board, but most of the players I know personally have less experience with the Fate system than I have (which, honestly, consisted of skimming SotC and now reading Dresden), some only know of The Dresden Files from the TV series, and many of them stick with certain "crunch" games that are more numbers than storytelling.

Now that the stage is set, I can actually ask the major question: How do you prepare for running this game?
This can be broken down into the following thoughts/questsions:
What are your approaches for teaching new players the various mechanics, from Aspects to Thaumaturgy?
How do you explain such things to a group that is more familiar with number crunching than writing a backstory?
How much thought do you put in a backstory, or expect your players to put into the story of their characters?
Do you have a preferred character creation approach?
As a GM, do you have suggestions for a cheat sheet, whether for the new players or even for yourself?
If you have ever made said cheat sheets, would you care to give an idea as to what is there and how it was done, what inspired it, etc?
Do you have a cap for a set number of players, so as to not go overboard, drag down play, or even keep the system intact?


Personally, I'm fond of cheat sheets, both in the general sense (explaining basic roll mechanics, noting Assessment/Declarations, etc) and the more personalized sense (skills, trappings, stunts, and powers based on the character; standard rolls and notes for a GM Screen). I also am prone to teach on the fly, as not many of my players are willing to slug through a 400 page book for a new game (sad, but true); this leads to an opening scene much akin to a video game tutorial where the players are given less control in terms of story (i.e. railroading), but are given the chances to test just about everything (Assessments/Declarations, a chance to use certain powers/stunts, etc). After that scene, the doors open, almost literally, to the story at hand.

At the moment, I'm still trying to get a party together (whether new RPers or my group of old hats), and as I begin this process, I'm curious what others do and hope that entirely new GMs may find something useful here. Who knows, maybe some of us who are stuck in old habits may see something new ^_^

In any case, happy gaming!

--Crion

[digital3lf]

I find, very strangely, that I'm doing very little! I did get a solid start on a city and many of it's NPCs, but the more I considered the chapter on City Creation, the more I felt that I should leave it pretty wide open to my players. The book's approach of building the setting communally, and THEN making character to exist in the setting, strikes me as natural genius. For my first try at running DFRPG, I want to see how that method works. I did not scrap my locations, NPCs, or story hooks, but any number of them might go unused, depending on what direction the players want to go in.

Fortunately my group is an experienced bunch of RPGers, and we even toyed with SotC a few sessions, so have some familiarity with the system. Something we all agree on, however, is that we enjoy our ignorance when trying a new system/setting. They may not take the time to read the books, watch the show, or even know the rules, but as long as I have a firm grasp of these things there is no need. Ignorance can be exciting, especially in a supernatural genre! In line with this, however, I am definitely starting at the very low end of the power spectrum, 6 base refresh. This way, if we all enjoy the game and want to continue, the characters can mature as their knowledge of the Dresdenverse does. It also leaves the door open if someone would like to play a different character, since they will not yet be deeply invested in any supernatural goings on, they can just disappear back into mortal life. Finally, if we want the power level to advance, that is wide open as well.

So overall, lots of ideas, but no firm plans. Just trying to know the rules and setting as inside&out as possible before the books arrive and we get started.

[Lanodantheon]

(1.)What are your approaches for teaching new players the various mechanics, from Aspects to Thaumaturgy?
(2.)How do you explain such things to a group that is more familiar with number crunching than writing a backstory?
(3.)How much thought do you put in a backstory, or expect your players to put into the story of their characters?
(4.)Do you have a preferred character creation approach?
(5.)As a GM, do you have suggestions for a cheat sheet, whether for the new players or even for yourself?
(6.)If you have ever made said cheat sheets, would you care to give an idea as to what is there and how it was done, what inspired it, etc?
(7.)Do you have a cap for a set number of players, so as to not go overboard, drag down play, or even keep the system intact?

1. I like to teach with the basics first. What basic mechanics are and then get more complicated as needed.
Aspects I teach by saying what they do and give lots of examples of good ones.

2. That one's tough. You just have to keep beating it into them, giving them examples and working them through it until they get it.

3. I put a lot of work into backstory. My players range from more than me to just enough to get the character going.

4. I LOVE communal creation. It makes the group cohesive from minute one. However, in my group it never gets that way because my players want to play and don't consider character/city creation to be play. SO far it has been, "WHat character did you bring and how can we fit that character in this week?"

5. There's a cheat sheet at the end of Vol. 1. I use it. Every player has one.
I also make sheets for all my common spells, trinkets, etc. If I'm running I make sheets for baddies.

6. No input there. I just do em the best I can.

7. 7 players DOES NOT WORK...at least for us. I want to play a game that has 3 or 4 players and a GM. 5 would really push it. 3 or 4 players is closer to the books and it doesn't divide your GM's attention too much. 

[Crion]

Thanks for the thoughts so far. It helps me a bit with what I'm working on at the moment.

At the moment, I have a few interested players, and the table looks as though it will be between 3-5 if I get the "whole group" into it. I was even wary of that number, as I was uncertain if the Fate system would crumble with five or more. Obviously I haven't run a game with this system yet, which is why I'm looking into hearing (or reading) what others have to say.

digital3lf, you have a good point with the idea of ignorance when it comes to a new setting, especially in the supernatural genre. It is a nice way of slowly introducing people into things, but I don't think the method would work at the moment with my current cast. I'm currently looking at putting the bar just high enough to allow Wizards at the table; it keeps me from feeling guilty about throwing the really strange things at the party while giving them the options of power to keep them interested in playing.
(Last game I tried to have a Vanilla Mortal approach in a supernatural game, everyone was eying up what they were gunning to become and we never even got through character creation).

But I do have to ask. . .with that approach of yours, do you just ignore the milestones and just bring them to the next point of power, or do you just offer more Major Milestones instead?

Lanodantheon, thanks for the comment as well.
When you teach the basic mechanics, do you just explain it, or do you use a more "hands on" approach? Just curious as to how others do this.
Communal creation is fun, but I do know your feeling on getting everyone together for it.

I am familiar with the cheat sheets from Vol.1, but I was wondering if anyone saw it worth adding more, or needing extra details beyond that and the character-based notes (Aspects, trinkets, etc).



Now that I'm thinking of it, what approaches do you all use for city creation? Do you actually bring a group together to make a city (such as your home town), or do you just design a city's themes and say "Here you go"?

And when it comes to your villains, do you prefer to plan them out well in advance, or do you prefer the make most, if not all, of the opposition on the fly to keep things balanced/scaled to match?

Again, just seeing what others do. Makes gaming that much more interesting.

Thanks again for getting the topic started.

--Crion

[GoldenH]

I decided to make a cheat sheet since the DFRPG book for all its goodness, kind of makes it hard to find stuff. So if I can make a nice quick reference guide I don't have to worry about that.

http://hammerand.com/goldenh/DFRPG%20cheat%20sheet.pdf

I will be keeping a list of things I need to know during a game so that I can add them to this... but if anyone else has ideas go for it.

I'll probably compress the Enchantment rules, but Thaumaturgy Rituals are so abstract that I don't think it's possible to. I mean what does 'how difficult would this be if it wasn't impossible' mean, anyway. It's meaningless. Plus it seems like Lore is not as important to Thaumaturgy than I thought, so it's all about how much detail a player wants to go into to make it interesting. That doesn't need a cheat sheet.

I also tried to color code the Trappings but it didn't work out so long since they're not clearly marked as Assessments or attack skills or whatever, I'll have to work on that.

[toturi]

How do you explain such things to a group that is more familiar with number crunching than writing a backstory?
How much thought do you put in a backstory, or expect your players to put into the story of their characters?
Do you have a preferred character creation approach?
--Crion

I would explain that the backstory is the story how the character got his numbers. For example if a character has good shooting skills, maybe he was in the army, maybe his father taught him how to shoot and he is talented that way.
I do not expect my players to come up with original stories, I do not mind them copying from a movie/a tv series/a book/etc. All I ask is that they make an effort to explain how their characters come by their numbers.
I tend to have an iterative creation process. I start off with a concept - that concept can be that I just watched a kung fu movie and want to create a kick ass martial artist, it could be that I just want to make use of a certain rule. Then I put in the numbers. I write the story. I go back to the numbers and adjust them, I go back to the story and adjust that, And so on, until I am satisfied.

[Deadmanwalking]

What are your approaches for teaching new players the various mechanics, from Aspects to Thaumaturgy?

Demonstrations in play. For example, in my just started Vegas game, the PCs tried to get an NPC Ectomancer to summon up some ghosts for them. I ran it as a full social Combat to give them a good idea of what that was like, explaining Maneuvers and Attacks (as well as Defenses) along the way.

How do you explain such things to a group that is more familiar with number crunching than writing a backstory?

Tell them to think of it as a character from a novel. Heck, they need to come up with a novel anyway, so that works out pretty well. Also, be very encouraging if they're inventive (the phrase "Okay, that's just awesome." should be typical).

How much thought do you put in a backstory, or expect your players to put into the story of their characters?

Enough to have a good idea of who they are and how they know each other. Any beyond that is gravy and/or can be come up with during play.

Do you have a preferred character creation approach?

Well, I'd like to do it all in a group, but that ddn't work out, and the haracters mostly have, so I doubt it matters hugely.

As a GM, do you have suggestions for a cheat sheet, whether for the new players or even for yourself?

As stated, there's one at the end of the book. Personally, I've got a ridiculous memory and usually don't need it, but it's there and quite well done.

If you have ever made said cheat sheets, would you care to give an idea as to what is there and how it was done, what inspired it, etc?

See above.

Do you have a cap for a set number of players, so as to not go overboard, drag down play, or even keep the system intact?

I wouldn't want to go over about 6 or 7. 7 is pushing it, but not undoable depending on the people involved. On the low end, I'd say three PCs is a reasonable minimum, at least for me.

[DesertCoyote]

(1.)What are your approaches for teaching new players the various mechanics, from Aspects to Thaumaturgy?
(2.)How do you explain such things to a group that is more familiar with number crunching than writing a backstory?
(3.)How much thought do you put in a backstory, or expect your players to put into the story of their characters?
(4.)Do you have a preferred character creation approach?
(5.)As a GM, do you have suggestions for a cheat sheet, whether for the new players or even for yourself?
(6.)If you have ever made said cheat sheets, would you care to give an idea as to what is there and how it was done, what inspired it, etc?
(7.)Do you have a cap for a set number of players, so as to not go overboard, drag down play, or even keep the system intact?

1) I'm still learning it myself, it's on a we're learning together basis.  This is my first time with the fate system.
2) Easy.  Tell them words are the numbers in this system.  If you've got some words that you can manipulate into giving you a good sounding reason to get away with something, you can.  Make good words on the character sheet.
3) I've got 3 players.  I must have spent somewhere in the area of 6 in total hours chatting them up coming up with stories (we couldn't get a proper first character creation session where we were all present).  Two were unfamiliar with Dresdenverse, but wanted to play anyway.  One is as familiar as I am, but thinks entirely too much.
4)Get a general idea.  Put pen to paper, change as needed by story.  Spoiler for my campaign in case JD, Chris, or Scott read this:

(click to show/hide)

My original villains were more concerned with WWII, but after our first session, the fall of communism felt like a much more fitting point of concern.  The general premise remains the same though, my villains are 6th Law-breakers trying to stop important events in history.

5) My cheat sheets are pretty disorganized.  If I can't find it, I make up something on the spot that sounds right.
6) I'm not a very organized person.  You don't want to use my cheat sheet.
7) No idea.  I've only got 3 friends that want to play DFRPG.

[Crion]

Thanks again for the considerations and your experiences, everyone. This is helping me out a bit, once again, with what I am trying to do. I haven't run the Fate system, and the closest story-heavy game mechanic I've used was the Storyteller system by White Wolf (and if you count high-drama, AEG's 7th Sea). An entirely different beast when you think about it, but not in a bad way. If anything, I'm enjoying this.

DesertCoyote, those are some interesting ideas there on #4. Best of luck with pulling that off.

Deadmanwalking, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one using "tutorial mode" here. How did the players sync with the ideas of manuevers? Additionally, was it the whole party against one, or was there just one party member doing the talking/combat?

GoldenH, thank you for posting that sheet. I may have to use it as a handout for my players as a reference.

Thanks again for comments, everyone.

--Crion

[Deadmanwalking]

Deadmanwalking, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one using "tutorial mode" here. How did the players sync with the ideas of manuevers? Additionally, was it the whole party against one, or was there just one party member doing the talking/combat?

Well, for the social combat mentioned there were several of them, all attempting to convince her one way or another (the guy who used Resources to Maneuver her was particularly fun for me) and she was a formiddable adversary in the social arena, so they Maneuvered quite alot.

The later, physical, fight with a Black Court Vampire and six jacked-up Renfields, had somewhat less maneuvering, since there were more, weaker, foes. Though the Maneuvering there was was very effective thanks to the winged Changeling using an Enchanted Item to put the Aspect "Unstable Shelving" on the warehouse and then tagging or invoking it for effect repeatedly to push shelves over onto an entire zone of Renfields (usually about 3 of them). Letting an appropriate Tag make an attack zone-wide seemed appropriate enough to me.

[Crion]

The later, physical, fight with a Black Court Vampire and six jacked-up Renfields, had somewhat less maneuvering, since there were more, weaker, foes. Though the Maneuvering there was was very effective thanks to the winged Changeling using an Enchanted Item to put the Aspect "Unstable Shelving" on the warehouse and then tagging or invoking it for effect repeatedly to push shelves over onto an entire zone of Renfields (usually about 3 of them). Letting an appropriate Tag make an attack zone-wide seemed appropriate enough to me.

That. . .sounds genius. Seriously. Were the shelves an already existing scene aspect, or were they just there in the background until the player came up with the idea?

And to get things straight in my head: most of the players did Maneuvers of sorts against the single target to help with creating Aspects to Tag to really get her to give in, correct? I'm assuming that otherwise her Defenses/Blocks were better than expected?

As for the example you have that I quoted: By my reading, the player used a maneuver to give a scene/location based Aspect of "Unstable Shelving" which was then tagged/invoked to place zone-wide attacks (much akin to explosions/Evocation)? Would that be a Weapons roll, or was all of the tagging done by the Enchanted Item?

Just really curious, but that does sound like a rather great idea, and I'm curious how you ruled that (especially since it is quite clear you know these mechanics better than I).

[Deadmanwalking]

That. . .sounds genius. Seriously. Were the shelves an already existing scene aspect, or were they just there in the background until the player came up with the idea?

No, he came up with it, then used magic (his Deck can place Luck based Aspects on the scene) to  make it so, though honestly, I might've allowed it as a Declaration of some sort.

And to get things straight in my head: most of the players did Maneuvers of sorts against the single target to help with creating Aspects to Tag to really get her to give in, correct? I'm assuming that otherwise her Defenses/Blocks were better than expected?

A combination of the two, actually. Her defenses were, in fact, very good, which resulted in the players attempting Maneuvers to make sure to get her.

As for the example you have that I quoted: By my reading, the player used a maneuver to give a scene/location based Aspect of "Unstable Shelving" which was then tagged/invoked to place zone-wide attacks (much akin to explosions/Evocation)? Would that be a Weapons roll, or was all of the tagging done by the Enchanted Item?

Creating the Aspect was the result of the Item, after that it was all just him attacking. I let him use Fists, actually, since it was his combat skill of choice and pushing a shelf over on some people while flying is actually pretty simple. I probably would've allowed someone to use Weapons instead if they were better at it.

Just really curious, but that does sound like a rather great idea, and I'm curious how you ruled that (especially since it is quite clear you know these mechanics better than I).

Allowing the use of a Tag for a zone attack isn't technically stated anywhere, but it's a 2 shift effect with magic...which, for me, makes it seem like exactly the scale of effect you should get from tagging or invoking for effect.

[Crion]

No, he came up with it, then used magic (his Deck can place Luck based Aspects on the scene) to  make it so, though honestly, I might've allowed it as a Declaration of some sort.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but a Declaration in this sense would have been Investigation or Alertness roll (if any roll, for that matter) to state that the shelves were there in the first place (and potentially be loose without using magic), correct?

Just getting a better understanding of these things.

Creating the Aspect was the result of the Item, after that it was all just him attacking. I let him use Fists, actually, since it was his combat skill of choice and pushing a shelf over on some people while flying is actually pretty simple. I probably would've allowed someone to use Weapons instead if they were better at it.

Allowing the use of a Tag for a zone attack isn't technically stated anywhere, but it's a 2 shift effect with magic...which, for me, makes it seem like exactly the scale of effect you should get from tagging or invoking for effect.

The ruling overall sounds pretty fair to me, and spending a Fate Point to blast everyone in a zone sounds like a pretty fair price to pay. I assume you set up a Weapons rating for the shelves, or was it just the flat out attack? Again, just getting a feel for these things.

[TheMouse]

This stuff isn't Dresden specific, but from prior FATE experience.

(1.)What are your approaches for teaching new players the various mechanics, from Aspects to Thaumaturgy?

Give a quick intro on the basics, then get to the rest in play. The basics are skill rolls and how to invoke Aspects, mostly.

Then, once play begins, ask people to tell you the type of actions they'd like to do without using game terms. So someone might want to prevent someone from running out of the room with the magical tome of stuff. At that point, I quickly explain the block action. Someone with high knowledge skills wants to help in a fight, I quickly tell them about how they can use that to slap Aspects on the target of the group's tank. Etc.

(2.)How do you explain such things to a group that is more familiar with number crunching than writing a backstory?

I just get to playing. Back story is fine if it is emergent during play. It's also fine if someone's not interested in that but would rather get to playing their guy. As long as everyone's having fun, it completely doesn't matter if one dude has an extensive background and the other has, "My dude was a thug in Chicago. Can we play now?"

(3.)How much thought do you put in a backstory, or expect your players to put into the story of their characters?

I find a concept to be more important. Know who your dude is now and what he'd like to do. Answer the whys of things as they come up or as inspiration hits.

I'm very improvisational, both as a player and a GM, so this approach might not be great for people who don't think that way. It's just what works for me.

(4.)Do you have a preferred character creation approach?

Spot something cool that gives me a concept. Make a dude out of that concept. Think of something cool for that dude to do. Reword that something into a goal. Make the guy. Play.

This means that I hit the ground with a character I think is cool who wants to do something in which I'm interested. This motivates me to invest in the character.

(5.)As a GM, do you have suggestions for a cheat sheet, whether for the new players or even for yourself?

The one GoldenH posted looks very cool. It's got most of the important rules stuff, at a quick glance.

I make sure to record all PC Aspects. An index card works the best for me. When in doubt, I can glance down and see if something leaps out at me.

(6.)If you have ever made said cheat sheets, would you care to give an idea as to what is there and how it was done, what inspired it, etc?

I don't tend to make cheat sheets. Instead, I get neurotic about memorizing everything. This is, a. not for everyone, and b. not necessarily healthy for the brain.

(7.)Do you have a cap for a set number of players, so as to not go overboard, drag down play, or even keep the system intact?

I prefer three to five. This is a good, "Enough, but not too much," range for me. Two is okay if the players are really motivated. Six isn't too much if the players play well with others. I'm not generally good with one on one, and I often get distracted with big crowds.

This will vary from group to group and GM to GM. Go with what feels comfortable for you. Be willing to experiment a little. The more comfortable you are with the group and with the rules, the more likely you'll be comfortable with larger crowds. The more you and your players are willing to grab things and go, the more likely you'll be good with smaller groups.

[Deadmanwalking]

And correct me if I'm wrong, but a Declaration in this sense would have been Investigation or Alertness roll (if any roll, for that matter) to state that the shelves were there in the first place (and potentially be loose without using magic), correct?

Just getting a better understanding of these things.

Yep. Or Resources if you own the building (which a PC actually did, though he was busy casting Thaumaturgy in the basement), or Craftsmanship used as a Knowledge skill to recognize them as loose...

Any way you did it, you could definitely make them Unbalanced as well as there fairly easily as a Declaration. But his Magic Item is a 4 shift effect, and thus automatically successful in putting a Sticky Aspect on the scene...and hence somewhat better.

The ruling overall sounds pretty fair to me, and spending a Fate Point to blast everyone in a zone sounds like a pretty fair price to pay. I assume you set up a Weapons rating for the shelves, or was it just the flat out attack? Again, just getting a feel for these things.

It never came up, he used them purely to Maneuver, pinning people under them. Though i likely would've gone with Weapon: 2 or so. They were metal shelves, and heavy, but nothing spectacularly deadly.