I need an emotion for my White Vampire

[Wordmaker]

That's an awesome character concept. I have a possible player joining who wants to play a White Court vampire who tries to "sip" enough to stay fed. Could I offer this up as a possibility to him?

[wampa]

Remember, Incite emotion is a mental stress attack. Courage isn't really a mental stress attack type of emotion... If you want to go for something along those lines, design a presence-based (or possibly conviction-based) stunt to get the whole "inspiring courage" thing going. That's not to say there aren't situations where courage can get you killed, but mental stress, not so much.

I really, really, really would recommend you NOT letting your WCV take courage as incite emotion. For me, that's the same category as Hope, Love, etc, if perhaps a milder version- which is part of why I'd put it as a mortal stunt. Remember, White Court Vampires are STILL Vampires. It should be HARD to be heroic as a WCV. It isn't much of an inner struggle against your monster when sunshine and puppies keep you well fed. If you want a fun RP experience for a struggling-against-my-inner-monster WCV, I'd go with despair or anger- Lust, which Thomas struggles with considerably, is in my opinion the easier side of things from a non-monstrosity point of view.

[Deadmanwalking]

While I agree with you that WCVs shouldn't have the ability in question, and even perhaps that some other ability should be used, but I don't think you need to convince anyone that the White Court shouldn't get Incite Courage, I'm pretty sure we're all in agreement there.

[Tharios]

His Paladin isn't a WCV, anyway.  After all, that's the most common way to get Incite Emotion, but far from the only way.

Honestly, there's nothing wrong with Inciting "Courage" in someone and still inflicting mental stress.  You place an aspect on someone that convinces them they're brave when they're still scared stiff...allowing them to act courageously at the expense of their psychological well-being, since it's forced.

Perfectly reasonable to me, though probably still not a good choice for a Paladin...unless the character only believes himself to be a Paladin and isn't actually sanctioned by a god, therefore having no powers of faith.  Perhaps a religious nut with some minor talent that thinks it's a gift from God?  He goes around "helping" people just like Molly tried to, never realizing he's destroying their minds little by little.

[gaelvin]

For the Paladin, I'd say you could create a new True Faith Power. Maybe call it:

DIVINE INSPIRATION [-1]
Description: In times of trouble, you can call upon your own Faith to bolster those around you.
Skills Affected: Conviction
Effects:
Courage. As a maneuver, you can roll your Conviction at +2 to inspire in others courage or a similar emotion which can be backed by your Faith. Any single ally in the same zone can be targeted by this power, but they resist with their own Conviction; those with strong beliefs of their own are not as easily inspired by the Faith of another. With success, an appropriate temporary aspect can be placed on the target.
Mass-Courage [-1]. The same effect can be instilled in all allies within the same zone.

[Tharios]

For the Paladin, I'd say you could create a new True Faith Power. Maybe call it:

DIVINE INSPIRATION [-1]
Description: In times of trouble, you can call upon your own Faith to bolster those around you.
Skills Affected: Conviction
Effects:
Courage. As a maneuver, you can roll your Conviction at +2 to inspire in others courage or a similar emotion which can be backed by your Faith. Any single ally in the same zone can be targeted by this power, but they resist with their own Conviction; those with strong beliefs of their own are not as easily inspired by the Faith of another. With success, an appropriate temporary aspect can be placed on the target.
Mass-Courage [-1]. The same effect can be instilled in all allies within the same zone.

I don't think it should be resisted.  Resistance implies force.  The whole point of true faith seems to revolve around the idea that those who have it and promote it are not themselves coerced or forced and do not do so to others.  It should be strictly a choice on the part of their allies.  They can take the aspect, or not take it.  If they agree to take it, it still may not help if their own conviction is too high and their beliefs too different.  Not so much resistance as rather not enough mojo to make it to them.

[gaelvin]

I don't agree that resistance implies force. If there were stress applied, that would be a different story. And while I think a case could be made for people resisting the Conviction of another person, I see your point. Especially considering that, by that method, other True Believers would be the least likely to benefit from the use of this power.

Maybe rather than placing an aspect on characters, the power places an aspect on a scene, kind of like the Performance skill. That way, characters can invoke it or not by choice.

Still, it seems like there should be something more to it.

[wampa]

A slight rephrasing / clarification / alteration of what I said before.

1. No positive emotions of any sort for WCVs! It just doesn't feel right thematically.
2. For the paladin, I'd go with a true faith power or mortal stunt for the whole courage-boosting thing.
3. Tharios, gonna have to agree to disagree on the the "courage as mental stress." Courage isn't really something that feels like it could inherently endanger someone's psychological well-being if they're naturally scared out of their wits - if anything, it'd be improving their psychological well-being temporarily. Just because its external, doesn't mean its negative- consider things like the leadership stunt.

[ludomaniac]

Here's a WCV character concept for you: a Fred Phelps-style minister who feeds on hatred.

Actually, that might be a better NPC...

[Tharios]

A slight rephrasing / clarification / alteration of what I said before.

1. No positive emotions of any sort for WCVs! It just doesn't feel right thematically.
2. For the paladin, I'd go with a true faith power or mortal stunt for the whole courage-boosting thing.
3. Tharios, gonna have to agree to disagree on the the "courage as mental stress." Courage isn't really something that feels like it could inherently endanger someone's psychological well-being if they're naturally scared out of their wits - if anything, it'd be improving their psychological well-being temporarily. Just because its external, doesn't mean its negative- consider things like the leadership stunt.

I know what you're trying to say, and it does seem we've reached an impasse.  Just...please don't use the phrase, "agree to disagree."  It never sounds to me like anything but a cop-out, and I'm pretty sure you're not copping-out.

[surarrin]

The idea for Incite: Courage was using it to place maneuvers and aspects on your allies.

You guys are assuming that the character would be taking lasting Emotion and  Potent Emotion.

They'd take at range, and just that, because they aren't trying to damage their allies, It's of course up to the ally to determine if they want to resist.

Code: [Select]

Emotion-Touch. If you can touch someone, you
can make him feel something. You’re able
to do maneuvers at +2 to your roll (using
Intimidation for anger or fear and Deceit for
every other emotion) that force an emotion
on a target (as a temporary aspect), so long
as you’re in the same zone as he is and you
can physically touch him. The victim defends
with his Discipline. You may be able to
prevent the victim from taking other actions
as well if you do this as a block (page 210)
instead of as a maneuver.

[JosephKell]

Wow,

  Thanks for all the suggestions. I think I'm going with Blind Devotion and using True Faith as a counter. I think blind devotion and addiction could be pretty closely tied so I will have some of the family into the drug trade as a complication.

Tom

How is True Faith not the same as Blind Devotion?

I think the opposite of Blind Devotion is Complete Skepticism.  Which is kind of lame as the only people with that are shut in conspiracy nuts and little kids that have just discovered the word "Why?"  Although the latter might just be annoyingly curious.  But the point is that no one can be both functional and completely skeptical (getting through life requires a minimum level of assumptions).

Obsession, Adoration, or Lust make more sense.  And those are all so similar it probably isn't worth the effort to distinguish between them.

And you can get to "blind devotion" from lust via consequences (and maybe aspects?  *Eek*).  If WCV Lead Singer feeds enough it isn't a stretch to assume a bunch of fans have been effected.  Especially if you allow for a further upgrade to allow for "zone attacks at range" (which seems almost too good, so probably just hand wave it for non-conflict scenes).

[Deadmanwalking]

How is True Faith not the same as Blind Devotion?

The same way True Love differs from Lust. True Faith is in no way blind, it's just true and real, and exists on a level that Blind, mindless, Devotion does not.

[JosephKell]

The same way True Love differs from Lust. True Faith is in no way blind, it's just true and real, and exists on a level that Blind, mindless, Devotion does not.

But "devotion" and "faith" are synonyms.  The same can't be said for "lust" and "love."

And "True Love" in DFRPG means having an aspect.  What kind of aspect can a character have that relates to "true faith" without being hokey?

[luminos]

But "devotion" and "faith" are synonyms.  The same can't be said for "lust" and "love."

And "True Love" in DFRPG means having an aspect.  What kind of aspect can a character have that relates to "true faith" without being hokey?

Do you realize there is an entire section of powers based on True Faith?