Author Topic: Emotions fuel magic right?  (Read 6201 times)

Offline Moriden

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Re: Emotions fuel magic right?
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2010, 12:54:21 AM »
oooo kinda an anti stunt. i like it. it should probably use the same rules as stunts[ only inverted] though. so it would have to be only -1 if it affects all aspects of athletics all of the time. same for the other, it would have to be only a +1
Brian Blacknight

Offline KOFFEYKID

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Re: Emotions fuel magic right?
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2010, 01:00:23 AM »
oooo kinda an anti stunt. i like it. it should probably use the same rules as stunts[ only inverted] though. so it would have to be only -1 if it affects all aspects of athletics all of the time. same for the other, it would have to be only a +1

Done, though I should say that if you go with this implementation, or use this idea for other characters, you should be VERY careful about it. This reminds me too much of D&D 3.5's flaws from Unearthed Arcana, taking a flaw in an area you wont ever need to worry about (say -2 to melee attack rolls) in exchange for an extra feat for your wizard.

Offline Moriden

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Re: Emotions fuel magic right?
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2010, 01:05:00 AM »
I'm inclined to just wrap it into the larger bundle im toying with. when ive got some numbers im confident in ill post the package im looking at.
Brian Blacknight

Offline Deadmanwalking

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Re: Emotions fuel magic right?
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2010, 01:05:27 AM »
Done, though I should say that if you go with this implementation, or use this idea for other characters, you should be VERY careful about it. This reminds me too much of D&D 3.5's flaws from Unearthed Arcana, taking a flaw in an area you wont ever need to worry about (say -2 to melee attack rolls) in exchange for an extra feat for your wizard.

Seconded. Athletics may be the only skill of universal enough applicability that this sort of thing is workable without being game-breaking. Well, maybe Alertness, too. I can't think of a third, though.

Offline Biff Dyskolos

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Re: Emotions fuel magic right?
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2010, 01:19:29 AM »
I agree with the cautions above. In would only use a Flaw like this to modify a single stunt, take a penalty to one of the skill's trapping for a bigger bonus to another trapping of the same skill. Otherwise it sounds like a slippery slope.

Offline Moriden

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Re: Emotions fuel magic right?
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2010, 01:28:25 AM »
Quote
I agree with the cautions above. In would only use a Flaw like this to modify a single stunt, take a penalty to one of the skill's trapping for a bigger bonus to another trapping of the same skill. Otherwise it sounds like a slippery slope.

As long as it has a meanigfull impact on the charecter i dont see a problem with it , in this specific case since id just be baking it into a larger power anyway it should be fine.
Brian Blacknight

Offline exploding_brain

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Re: Emotions fuel magic right?
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2010, 03:48:05 AM »
Interesting take on the mechanics.  I think there might be something there.  I'd look at Kimlerian Necromancy as another take on the Sponsored magic approach.  You must have evocation or channeling before taking power X.  Refresh would be relatively low, -1 or -2.  Power X provides a bonus to power in these circumstances.  You must have an aspect that references your source of near constant pain. 

Pulling back from the mechanics however, I'd say that from a story/characterization point of view, the near constant pain that you're talking about can have many results.  Sometimes it makes you angry, gives an emotional boost, etc.  But constant pain can also be exhausting.  And over time, the tiring effects of pain tend to overcome the motivating effects.

This points me toward an aspect approach.  You can compel the constant pain to make the character unable to concentrate, or to become irritable when they want to be calm, or to just be unable to summon the energy to do something, because they've used up their emotional reserved fighting off the pain.  Then again, during moments of great need, they can invoke the aspect to call on their ability to fight through pain, and boost to negative emotions that it provides, to power a spell, or just to ignore a little more pain for just a little bit longer.

Offline arentol

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Re: Emotions fuel magic right?
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2010, 07:34:51 AM »
So your saying that only emotions/pain above the norm should be able to fuel magic? Meaning that even if my base level of x emotion is two to three times that of a normal persons i still cant "tap into" it anymore then the normal person can. That makes a certain amount of sense. i would use christine? harrys brothers love interest to argue against it though. she is described in the early books as "to full of emotion" and that is why shes so prized as a chew toy, because her greater depth of emotion makes her energy "more potent" and possibly means theirs more of it.

Although Christine is "full of emotion" something presumably still has to be taking place to bring forth her emotions. So that is not a "constant" situation, so it doesn't really relate to my point.

As to the concept of more potent emotions... Lets assume Christine has aspects of "heart on her sleeve" and another aspect of "Deeper than the deepest ocean". Raith's would be able to invoke both aspects on the same roll when feeding on her, giving them +4 to the feed roll, making it pretty much guaranteed they will get a huge amount of power from her. Therefore she is a potent prize for them. However, if Christine were a wizard she could use these same aspects to increase all sorts of things that benefit from positive emotions instead of negative.

Now, lets assume a wizard has "Quick to anger" and "Fury of the ages"... So he is in the same boat, but with anger instead of love. He would anger fast, and his anger would run strong and deep. So he could invoke 2 aspects when attacking out of anger. However, this could be used against him as well, allowing NPCs to get him so angry he kills innocents with magic if he isn't careful.

So basically taking multiple emotions that can power your wizard abilities makes for a lot of power, but also a MASSIVE weakness.

Offline Moriden

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Re: Emotions fuel magic right?
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2010, 03:14:32 PM »
Okay here is the first draft of "pain magic" I'm Currently calling it Sadicas, which i've blatantly stolen from CJ Carellas Witchcraft all rights are his yadda yadda.

Sadicas base -5  +1 for evocation and thaumaturgy. If you do not reliably have a source of pain add +1 to the cost of this quality, if you have a reliable source of pain and thus always have access to this then do not. Constant Pain counts as a source for this purpose so you can only gain the +1 from Constant Pain or from not always having access to this power. not both.

Cost: To Reliably draw power from pain and sacrifice you must already be  a wizard or sorcerer of some stripe, well-versed in Evocation or Thaumaturgy (with at least some specialization in Biomancy or Psychomancy), and have Learned how to channel magical power from pain. Therefore this is available only as an upgrade to those abilities.
This power is much more then the occasional use of temporary pain or anger to fuel your magic, it is a complex and comprehensive understanding of how to use emotions, pain, suffering, and sacrifice. Theoretically any emotion could be substituted in for pain and you would have a similar form of sponsored magic, but as pain is much easier to come by then say love Sadicas is far more common, if you where going to adapt this power to another emotion the bonuses it provides would have to be changed to better reflect that concept.

Benefits:
Standard sponsored magic benefits (page 288).In the same way that blood calls to blood, so to dose pain call to pain. If using pain as a power source on any spell intended to inflict stress or consequences add +2 to the power of that affect, you may also use evocations speeds and methods for any such spell as well as for any Spell that would logically gain strength from pain as a power source[This is up to your story teller, howver this form of magic is about as far from subtle or delicate as you can get, so generally any "brute force" type affect should qualify and anything finicky or delicate should not.] coloring such evocations with the agonizing Caress of pain and adding a +1 to the spells complexity threshold. It should be noted that you must find a source of such strong pain or suffering to draw on before being able to claim this benefit.

Downside:
Every three times [or so] that you Channel pain in such a way You must change one of your aspects To reflect that you draw so much of your power and self image from pain/Suffering. Once all of your Aspects have been changed such you do not need to keep changing them unless one changes to something else through the course of play and you continue to use Sadicas after such a change. This is in addition to the standard debt mechanics of sponsored magic. While there is no sentient force corrupting you all uses of magic require the magician to believe that that spell is Right, channeling pain in such a way leaves a mark on your soul forever changing who and what you are.


Upgrades
Constant Pain [+1]
Your character has Fibromyalgia or a similar condition that causes you  constant, sometimes overwhelming pain. Take a -1 Penalty to any use of the Athletics skill. At least one of your aspects should reflect this state. This dose qualify as a "source of pain" for Sadicas and is one of the only ways to use such magic in a morally neutral way.

Brian Blacknight

Offline Rel Fexive

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Re: Emotions fuel magic right?
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2010, 04:11:47 PM »
I still think "I'm in constant pain so I can use that to power my magic" is not a good idea, but maybe that's just me.

Causing yourself injuries to invoke the consequence to power your magic, no problem.  As in, "I draw my ritual knife across my arm and use the pain and blood as fuel for my Power!" is fine.
THE DOCTOR: I'll do a thing.
RIVER SONG: What thing?
THE DOCTOR: I don't know. It's a thing in progress. Respect the thing!

Offline arentol

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Re: Emotions fuel magic right?
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2010, 07:06:24 PM »
Didn't realize you were intending to design a specific new power with this discussion. That changes everything because you aren't asking about the existing rules, but how to best create a new rule. Wish I had known.

Offline Biff Dyskolos

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Re: Emotions fuel magic right?
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2010, 07:14:05 PM »
I still think "I'm in constant pain so I can use that to power my magic" is not a good idea, but maybe that's just me.

I'm in constant pain because I have "Barbed wire wrapped around my waist."

Offline Moriden

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Re: Emotions fuel magic right?
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2010, 07:38:00 PM »
Quote
I'm in constant pain because I have "Barbed wire wrapped around my waist."
sounds like intentionally giveing yourself a consequence to me.



Quote
Didn't realize you were intending to design a specific new power with this discussion. That changes everything because you aren't asking about the existing rules, but how to best create a new rule. Wish I had known.
Apologies, originally i was just bouncing ideas around then i got the idea for it as a form of sponsored magic, as i mentioned  a few times. im currently viewing it as similar to useing a ley line, you need the strong concentration of "pain" to be there. if it is you can use it to enhance magic in z y z ways, but because the magic is inherently "destructive" it taints you similarly to how lawbreaking dose.

Brian Blacknight

Offline Biff Dyskolos

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Re: Emotions fuel magic right?
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2010, 07:42:38 PM »
sounds like intentionally giveing yourself a consequence to me.

"I draw my ritual knife across my arm..." would be inflicting a consequence. Barb wire wrapped around your body would by an aspect.

Offline Moriden

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Re: Emotions fuel magic right?
« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2010, 07:54:58 PM »
depends on weather you always have it there or you just did it that one time i suppose.
Brian Blacknight