Learning: Don't Leave!

[Nudge]

As part of a sekrit project I'm working on:

Simple hypothetical: A PC sees another character leaving a scene.  He doesn't want to do any form of attack, can't give chase, he doesn't know much of anything about the other party to start bringing in Aspects, and he has time for only a single exchange before the other departs.

My thought is: Do a first Impression check to possibly give someone an Aspect, then let the PC make an Intimidation check as a Block (or other skill, but let's say Intimidate for this example).  The departing character can make a check (Conviction?  Discipline?) to beat the block and depart on their action, or fail and....

Or is this more like an Intimidate maneuver to apply "rethinking departing", which the NPC can try and shed on their turn (taking a -1 for their departure as a supplemental, that only applies if they win?) 

What's the best way, mechanically, to demonstrate this?  (And I do actually want to do it with rolls rather than only raw RP - humor me)

Thanks!

[Deadmanwalking]

Maneuver with either Intimidate (for a "Don't you dare leave!") or Rapport ("Please don't leave!") or Presence ("Do Not Leave.") to place a "Reconsidering Leaving" Aspect on them which you then tag for effect to make them not leave, at least for an exchange or two. They'd oppose with Rapport or Empathy if they had no particular urgent need to leave, and could possibly use Discipline or Conviction instead if they had urgent business elsewhere.

[luminos]

I'd probably do it as a block using an appropriate skill to the situation.  Putting a maneuver aspect on the other person would only inconvenience them if they were leaving the area.

[Nudge]

I'd probably do it as a block using an appropriate skill to the situation.

Thematically I prefer block, but how would you resolve any attempt to leave? 

If I get a Good (+2) Intimidate Block to prevent you from leaving, does this mean you are free to take action on me EXCEPT for leaving?  Does trying to leave take up my action if I fail to get past your block?  What am I rolling to overcome your block?

[luminos]

Leaving, if the block is on leaving, takes up a full action.  The block effectively acts as a "defense" roll against attempts to leave.  I'd roll either discipline or presence to beat the block in that circumstance.

[Deadmanwalking]

If you prefer a Block, then by all means go with luminos's suggestion. It's mechanically and thematically sound.

[RogerC]

Under pure DFRPG, I think I'd be inclined to run this as a straight attack, with the intention of getting the NPC to concede and stick around.  Mechanically it's an "attack" but it's not like the guy's head is going to explode.

If this was going to be a full-blown scene on its own, I'd be tempted to set it up with the Social Conflict rules from a different FATE game called Diaspora.  But that's starting to get off-topic.

Running it as establishing a block should work pretty well too.


Cheers,
Roger

[paul_Harkonen]

I want to point out that "leaving a scene" is not like a computer game or something else like that where they hit the border and instantly disappear.  You could chase after them (not an attack) call out to them (possibly an attack) or do some combination of those two.  They move out of the zone, but you could fairly easily chase them down and bring them back.

If the issue is that they're getting into a car or a bus or something like that, you could do it as an intimidation (or potentially deceit) attack or block.  Either way the person is likely to respond if you affect them.

[Nudge]

I want to point out that "leaving a scene" is not like a computer game or something else like that where they hit the border and instantly disappear.  You could chase after them (not an attack) call out to them (possibly an attack) or do some combination of those two. 

In this case, it is (Can't say more without revealing the sekrit), which is why I specified that the PC couldn't give chase, but your point is otherwise valid.

[Biff Dyskolos]

If you ran this as a manoeuvre and used the free tag to compel the target to stay does the target get a fate point? I seem to recall in the text that that target doesn't get the point if the compel is from the free tag, only if you actually spend a fate point for that compel but I can't locate that rule in the text.

If the target does get that fate point then running it as a block may be a better option, tactically speaking.

[Deadmanwalking]

Yeah, they only get the Fate Point if you need to spend one. Otherwise maneuvering in general would be pretty worthless.

[arentol]

I think we actually have too little information to answer this in detail. There are tons of ways to resolve it based on the information given, and dice don't even need to be involved for many of them.

The player could just say he asks the person to stop, and you could RP the guy looking back and either stopping or going depending on the nature of the PC (likely stopping for Michael or Thomas, hoofing it for Molly or Harry).
If the NPC has a partial inclination to stop anyway then it won't even matter what the player does, almost anything will keep him from leaving.

If dice need to be involved you don't need have to think of it as block. The exchange can be thought of as a contest instead. They are practically the same thing in this situation, and since its not like it is actual combat the simpler one is just that, simpler:

If the PC doesn't get physical you could do a contest of Intimidation (threaten him to stop), Presence (order him to stop), or Rapport (beg him to stop) vs. Empathy or Discipline. The NPC could even use Conviction if he is leaving for a reason that is extremely important to him. e.g. Commander Vimes needing to get home in time to read his sons favorite bedtime story exactly at 6pm sharp (If you don't get this reference, shame on you, everyone should read Terry Pratchett).

If the PC does get physical then a contest still works. Might (chest bump), Athletics (get in his way and stay in his way, but without pushing backwards) or Fists (hold in place or block with arms) vs. Athletics, Fists, or Might depending on the NPCs response. For instance he could try to dodge around a chest bump (athletics) or shove an athletics attempt to the side (fists).

No matter which option is chosen, just roll a contest and see who wins. If the PC wins the guy stays for a number of exchanges equal to the shift, if the NPC wins then he gets away. If there is a tie the NPC gets away but the PC gains some minor bit of information about him that will help track him down later, like maybe a matchbook from a bar falls out of the NPCs pocket as he dodges around the PC.

There is no need to make this more complex than it really is.

[Nudge]

dice don't even need to be involved for many of them.

Of course...but I asked for you to humor me.

If the NPC has a partial inclination to stop anyway then it won't even matter what the player does, almost anything will keep him from leaving.

Ah, but if the NPC is inclined to leave, it's a trick to get him to stay, and your level of skill at that trick is measured by a...skill.  How many times in a narrative does the hero stop or get stopped for a moment with a choice phrase?

If dice need to be involved you don't need have to think of it as block. The exchange can be thought of as a contest instead. They are practically the same thing in this situation, and since its not like it is actual combat the simpler one is just that, simpler

True, but if the NPC stops there likely COULD be a social conflict, so why not use the model?  So few games have good rules for modeling social conflict, why avoid them when there is an actual social conflict that could be both significant and fun?

No matter which option is chosen, just roll a contest and see who wins. If the PC wins the guy stays for a number of exchanges equal to the shift, if the NPC wins then he gets away. If there is a tie the NPC gets away but the PC gains some minor bit of information about him that will help track him down later, like maybe a matchbook from a bar falls out of the NPCs pocket as he dodges around the PC.

I admire the description, but it's outside what I was looking for.  I presented the options I was considering and was trying to work out the details of how they functioned.  Luminos gave me a solid answer (thanks!) that helped me with the part I was grappling with: Rolling dice to walk away feels weird.  But if I consider doing the same thing in a physical conflict, I'd not blink at rolling, say, Might, to push past something (and walking away).  In particular, I needed to realize that there isn't a -1 for a supplemental action: Walking IS the action with no roll needed.  The roll just ALLOWS the action.

Thanks to all, I'm good here.  I'm sorry to be mysterious, but if this pans out, I'm sure it will be useful to others.  I expect I'll have additional questions as time moves forward.

[arentol]

Luminos gave me a solid answer (thanks!) that helped me with the part I was grappling with: Rolling dice to walk away feels weird.

I can resolve that much more easily. This is a game of storytelling, in which PCs and NPCs alike can actually CONTROL the actions of others at times. For instance, player A can COMPEL the PC of player B simply by using an appropriate aspect and a fate point. So I, as a PLAYER can control YOU as a player. After that, the fact that I can potentially control an NPC with a dice roll is pretty minor by comparison. That is all you need to understand and accept to get around this issue you were grappling with.

As to Luminos process vs. mine, mine is WAY simpler to use and it is the only way for a solo PC to actually accomplish anything if the NPC is 100% determined to leave. "Block" is an unnecessary and potentially useless complication to the process.

Contest process: PC declares he is attempting to stop the person from leaving by using his Presence to order the person to stay. GM rolls presence for NPC to ignore the command. If NPC wins NPC leaves. If neither wins, then you do it again, or get some other split result. If PC wins then NPC stays for Shift # of exchanges. If the PC only gets 1 shift then he has to keep "blocking" until he gets more shifts, but if/when he gets 2 or more he then has time to take other actions before having to "block" again.

Block process: PC declares he is attempting a social block maneuver to stop the person from leaving by using his Presence to order the person to stay. The PC rolls to determine the block strength. On the NPCs turn the NPC then rolls presence to shrug off the block. If NPC wins NPC leaves.... Up to this point it is effectively exactly the same as the contest process, but now it gets interesting.... If NPC doesn't break the block then he has to stay until the PCs next turn is up. However, the PC is in the same position now as he was a second ago. He has to refresh the block or the NPC walks his very next turn, and if he doesn't refresh it then whatever action he is about to take he could have taken last turn instead of blocking, making the block a complete waste of time. So unless there is a second PC present the PC can never gain anything from this process unless the NPC chooses not to try to break the block anymore for some reason.