Can Dresden Files RPG handle an Immortal 'Highlander' style character?

[Darkling]

The movies after the first one don't count. No, not even the ones based on the show with Duncan in them. The first movie and the show are all that exists. There should've been only one!

I agree completely.   The sequel movies and spin off shows got worse expenentially.   I love the first movie and the first LIVE ACTION (not animated) TV series though.

 

[Deadmanwalking]

I agree completely.   The sequel movies and spin off shows got worse expenentially.   I love the first movie and the first LIVE ACTION (not animated) TV series though.

Exactly. Those are the good ones.

[Cajun Guy]

You COULD make a character based on the second highlander movie. How much bonus refresh do you get for "covered with the stench of failure and lameness"?   

Then again nevermind.. It's probably an aspect. What was Sean Connery smoking when he took that job?

[Tharios]

You COULD make a character based on the second highlander movie. How much bonus refresh do you get for "covered with the stench of failure and lameness"?   

Then again nevermind.. It's probably an aspect. What was Sean Connery smoking when he took that job?

Well, considering he turned down a shot at being Magneto because he didn't understand the role, and took on Alan Quartermaine when he still didn't understand the role because X-Men did so well...it's fair to say there's not much rhyme or reason to his choices...

I liked Fitzcairn best from the series, he's the sort of guy that makes the centuries FUN!  Though, that married couple who gets married every hundred years was pretty interesting.  Gotta give him kudos for not taking her head after all that time.

[Cajun Guy]

In the league of extraordinary gentlmen comments he said he was offered roles in  The Matrix and LOTR as well and turned them down.

Obviously not a fan if he turned down LOTR. I could see him now as Gandalf, "Just get rid of the d*mn ring Trebek, I mean Frodo.. or whoever you are you little sissy."

[Tharios]

Utterly off-topic, but it just popped into my brain and I have to get it out.  Denzel Washington would've been 100 times better in the lead role for The Last Samurai.  So much so that when I think about it, I can't watch it anymore.  I mean, when you picture him in Tom Cruise's place...everything in the story just makes more sense and is just so much...BETTER.

Anyway, heard about Sean turning those down too.  Darn shame.

I think the biggest notion is how flexible are immortals when placed in a world like that in the Dresden Files?  Obviously many creatures, even wizards, acquire a variety of powers they're not entitled to inherently over the years.  In a world where there are all sorts of nasties, an entire "psuedo-earth" spirit world just to the left of us, and friggin full-blown magic exists...is it possible for Immortals to pick up something "unusual" once in a while over the centuries?  That would make for some interesting quickenings later on...and would make the oldest immortals forces to be reckoned with even in the Dresdenverse.

On the subject of Immortals and the laws of magic...I'd chalk them up with WCVs.  Like WCVs, they're born, but are not automatically supernatural.  If they go their whole life without triggering their true nature (in the case of Immortals, dying), then they simply grow old and die normally, never having realized their potential.  So, essentially, while they still possess free will, just like some WCVs, they don't quite count as human.  You can nuke even the most human of WCVs til the cows come home and the Council won't even bat an eyelash at you (unless it's somehow directly violating the accords, then you're in trouble).  It won't be a violation of the Laws to kill immortals with magic, and they won't get lawbreaker for killing people (though perhaps they could...maybe an immortal rule we haven't heard of before that they're not supposed to go around just cutting up regular folk?  The Quickening being related to the force of life, and all?).

Now that I think of it...most of the Council won't like Immortals much in general.  While they won't feel compelled to interfere in the Gathering, they probably won't often welcome an Immortal to town when they come calling.  I mean, they survive by lopping each others heads off, after all.

Ya know...I wonder how many Immortals actually do just die naturally of old age or whatnot?  Wouldn't it be freaky to have some natural disaster destroy a city of millions with no chance of survival, only to see a few hundred walk out of the dusty wreckage without a scratch?  I mean...ultimately, that's an incredibly low percentage of the population, but it would make sense.  There aren't so few immortals because they aren't born...there are so few because they don't all die correctly.

Also, while there's nothing to support it...I've always personally preferred the notion that immortals CAN have children...before they die.  Mostly, that's because I've never been a fan of the notion that they just randomly happen.  I prefer inheritance of some sort...even if it skips generations at a time.  Plus, it opens up story potential for things like older immortals meeting their mortal descendants.  I think since it doesn't directly violate canon, and opens up a lot of opportunities, that it's the way to go.  But, that's just me.

[Deadmanwalking]

Actually, having them have children pre-death does directly violate at least the show's canon. But if you want to go for it more power to you.

And they really don't have a rule about killing, Duncan was referred to repeatedly as a soldier in more wars than you can count, and kills quite a few people in the show without that ever being portrayed as particularly bad. Also, there are logical problems there.

And the reason I'd count Immortals as human for Lawbreaking reasons, and WCVs as not, is simple: WCVs have a clearly malevolent entity in them, and must prey on humanity to survive. Immortals have no such thing. Immortals are essentially human, and they behave and think like humans (which the White Court definitively do not). They're not even compelled to fight each other, the bastards among them just do it for power, while the others do it to survive. All very human reasons.

[Tharios]

I haven't seen the show in ages, and the only part I remember is when some girl claimed her kid was Ritchie's.  I know it wasn't his in the end, but couldn't remember if it was because immortals can NEVER have children, even pre-immortality.  But, like I said, I prefer that it's possible anyway, just suits me better.

War and murder are logically the same but thematically different.  However, I do agree that there's some logical difficulty in enforcing the difference, since immortals don't have specific powers that could be used to directly kill.  For instance, Wizards can kill the hell out of people...just not with magic.  Immortals kill everything with tools, not powers...just like regular people.  So, that's not really viable, I admit.

I'm sticking with them not causing a violation of the first law though.  I don't consider Immortals valid targets for Soulgazing either, personally...but there's no specific reason to disallow it.  I'd normally consider them "monsters" only too, except that they do have free will and the game supports them pretty well.  Frankly, were they to exist, I'd hunt them down like the renegade watchers.  Then again...I'd hunt down everything else, too.  I'm one of those, "I say we dust off, nuke the site from orbit...it's the only way to be sure," kind of guys.

Immortals look and act human, and may or may not have souls...but they're not human, not even pre-Immortality.  They're "wrong".  No mere humanoid should exist that long...except maybe plants, and stars if they're alive...it's just out of balance.  Just the way I see it.  Then again, when all's said and done, I don't think too highly of humans, either.

Ooh, I think I just found the Trouble for my Wyld Hunt Survivor..."Friggin' Humans!"

[Jeckel]

I've been working on a full Immortal Template and here is what I've come up with. Let me know what you guys think.

Musts: A high concept that denotes status as an Immortal (e.g., Honorable Immortal or Immortal With a Death-wish) must be taken. In addition, Immortals are required to take the following supernatural powers:

* Marked by Power [–1]: Immortals are filled with great power. This can be sensed naturally by other Immortals and, with the proper abilities, it can also be perceived by non-Immortals, a Wizard's Sight being one example.

* Supernatural Sense [-2]: Can sense the presence of other Immortals. This is a passive ability that always succeeds at distances closer then thirty to fifty feet on average. The distance can be increased with shifts from an Alertness roll. The sense can not be blocked by non-magical means and any mystical obstruction is contested by an Alertness roll.

* Supernatural Recovery [-4 + 3 = -1]: This applies to the healing of wounds and doesn't include re-growing missing body parts, be it a finger, an ear, or your head.
* The Catch [+3]: Can be bypassed by removal of a body part (+2) and knowledge of the catch is discoverable through research (+1).

* The Quickening [-4]: When an Immortal looses their head, the nearest living Immortal receives a single fate point, one skill rank, and the benefits of a Minor Milestone. All three rewards can be used immediately and have no additional rules or restrictions. Optionally, the GM may limit the use of the skill rank and/or the acquisition of new skills and powers to those appropriate to the decapitated Immortal. Also, at the GM's discretion, certain Immortals may give more then one fate point or skill rank when are defeated, generally relating to how powerful the Immortal is based on the number of points currently in their fate pool.

Options: Every Immortal is unique. There are no specific restrictions on stunts, besides the normal refresh cut-off rules, and Supernatural Powers are possible, with GM approval.

Important Skills: Alertness

Minimum Refresh Cost: -8


It's all pretty obvious, but I will point out a few things.

I raised the cost of Supernatural Sense from -1 to -2 because of the automatic success at close distance.

I thought for awhile about how to do quickening. Off the top I knew that there shouldn't be any new record keeping, the strength of the DFRPG system the way it adds simple numbers to free-form role-playing. No new pools, counters, tracks, stats, or any other numbers that need to be referenced durning play. I like the idea of using the built-in mechanic of Milestones, and Minor Milestones are almost perfect, but don't portray the gain of new knoledge/abilities. The Significant Milestones may give a skill rank, but they limit to one item from the Minor Milestones and that seems to weak. Major Milestones are too good except for maybe finishing a really powerful Immortal, but how often does that happen and when it does GMs are free to use them. So I settled on the rewards mentioned above, 1 fate point, 1 skill rank, and a Minor Milestone.


That leaves me with two questions. First, does the Quickening power seem acceptable? Second, how would one go about adding the ability to breath under water?

[Deadmanwalking]

Well, personally, I wouldn't give them Marked By Power. That's specifically for people who have a patron. Just showing up as something scary to The Sight and such isn't a power, and doesn't cost anything.

Second, I'd say that no Power should ever grant Skills or other such things...but that one granting Milestones under certain circumstances is reasonable. I'd stick with Significant Milestones, or possibly call them Quickening Milestones and have them give you a skill point and all the benefits of a Minor Milestone (not a big deal).

However, getting a Fate Point when you kill an Immortal seems reasonable, so I'd make that the power. Make it -1 Refresh, and say that it grants you a Fate Point, and gives you a Quickening Milestone and you're good to go.

Then just note that these should be instead of, not in addition to, the Significant Milestones gained by others, and the cost is only -4 and they work fine.

[Tharios]

I can agree that Marked by Power itself isn't the right choice, since it does require a patron of some sort...something new based on Marked by Power would be ideal.  In fact, Marked by Power is perfect except that it requires a patron, which Immortals don't generally have.  I'm not sure if that would still make it worth a refresh by then.  Ah well.

Supernatural Sense can still be used, but there doesn't really need to be contested rolls or such.  There's never been anything in the movies or the shows that indicate they can extend their sense or hide their power.  Well...except for that abomination with Mario Van Peebles in it.  In general for that, I"d say it works out to 20 yards, and pings any nearby Immortals...guaranteed.  However, it does nothing to determine number, position, or power.  It's just, "There are one or more Immortals within 20 yards of this point," period.  At the GMs discretion, this can be increased or decreased for dramatic potential, since that distance usually works best, but sometimes they'll feel an immortal from the other end of a warehouse or not until they're right on top of each other for no apparent reason.  Another consideration is that the sense only seems to go off at the first meeting, and won't trigger again for days, sometimes weeks with that specific immortal.  Maybe a scene or something has to pass before they can sense a given Immortal again?  Ultimately, I think it works out enough to be worth only -1 refresh as usual.

Supernatural Recovery is the best notion, but there has to be a consideration for things like...surgical removal of the heart.  Does the Immortal still live without a heart, or does he regrow one?  Nitpicky, maybe...but sure enough someone's gonna try it, trust me.  So...something like they can't regrow limbs (especially the head), but they can regrow internal organs.  The catch is otherwise fine as is.

Quickening's a tough one.  I'm inclined to agree that an Immortal's quickening should replace a particular type of milestone on the rare occasions they occur.  Though, honestly, I think slaying another immortal should count as one of the three milestones anyway, depending on how often such fights occur, and how important they are.  Like...Connor and Kurgan's final battle was absolutely a Major Milestone.  Duncan had several of those in the series as well.  Piddly Immortals get you a minor milestone because they're more a nuisance than anything...heavy-hitters get you a significant milestone...and the 1,000+ year old, serious jerk-head, constant pain-in-humanity's-rear, will get you a major milestone.  Works out to about the same frequency as anyone else in the group...especially if the Immortal isn't getting their milestones because his quickenings replace them whenever he takes a head.  Keeps everyone right on par.

Just what I think.  Aside from those details I mentioned, I'd have done it about the same way myself...so kudos.

[ryanroyce]

Here's a new Power for a proposed "Immortal" template, borrowing from both Marked by Power and Wizard's Constitution.

Immortal [-0]
Description: You are an Immortal, ageless from the time of your first death, and you are not alone... yet.  There can be only one.
Note: In terms of game effects, the uses of this ability are so minor and inherently balanced that they’re really almost cosmetic; hence the zero cost.
Skills Affected: Endurance, Lore
Effects:
Ageless.  As a side-effect of your supernatural ability to recover from any injury (save decapitation), your lifespan is extended indefinitely.  In game terms this will rarely have relevance.

Awareness. You can automatically sense the presence of another Immortal that comes within 2 zones of you, as if you had succeeded on a Lore: Mystic Perception roll.  However, the other Immortal becomes aware of you even as you become aware of them, so no advantage is ever gained by either one.  Other creatures may perceive this aspect of you through a Lore check, though success is not guaranteed.

Holy Ground. No Immortal knows for certain what would happen if they killed another on holy ground, they only know that they absolutely mustn't.  As such, GMs are free to set their own penalties for violating this rule.  Suggestions include negating this power entirely, at which point Father Time returns to collect his due, or inflicting an extreme consequence as if the Immortal had broken a magically binding oath (YS 274).

[Tharios]

Not bad Ryan, not bad at all.

The only issue is that Wizard's Constitution doesn't make recovery faster...which, after going down in a hail of bullets and then getting up only a few hours later at most without even a mark says at least Inhuman Recovery to me.

Aside from that, I like it.

Part of the problem is...Immortals get stabbed, cut, and shot quite a bit.  Yet they only sometimes scar.  They never regrow limbs, but they do apparently regrow major organs (aside from the brain).  The severity and location of wounds that scar seem to be completely inconsistent.  For all the damage he's taken to the torso and limbs, Duncan should've been completely covered in scars whenever he went shirtless.  As near as I can tell, it only scars if it's above the shoulders, and otherwise only when limbs are amputated (except the head).  Perhaps immortals should get their own versions of the Recovery Powers?  I would imagine also that while they can't grow back a hand, putting the hand back on soon enough and securing it in place would probably allow it to heal normally.

Now I'm just rambling.  Ignore that.

[ryanroyce]

Oh, the Immortal template would get Supernatural Recovery as a separate "Must" power, not as part of the Immortal power.  While it makes a degree of sense for them to have a slightly different version of the power (AFAIK, Immortals need sleep just as much as Mortals do), it isn't worth it when the existing version is more than serviceable for the Highlander concept. 

The Quickening element is another power entirely, though I'm thinking that much of its effect (if not all of it) should be simply incorporated into the Immortal's high concept, allowing the player to invoke (or the GM to compel) it in just about any situation.

[DFJunkie]

I would think the Quickening could simply be represented by invoking your character's "Immortal Swordsman" high concept any time the accumulated knowledge and skills would be relevant, which would effectively mean "at will, unless it's absurd."

Obviously, you'd get a fate point for beheading another immortal since you've just lived up to your high concept aspect in the truest way possible.