Author Topic: Magic to boost skills, adapting enchanted item rules  (Read 3160 times)

Offline exploding_brain

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Magic to boost skills, adapting enchanted item rules
« on: April 18, 2010, 10:40:03 PM »
A few other threads have hit upon a stumbling block in the rules when it comes to using magic to boost skills.  I was thinking that it might be solved with an adaptation of the enchanted item rules, especially with the new patch that was recently posted. http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,17041.0.html

There might also be some room for the potion rules to help this idea.

Hope this helps some folks solve some problems.  Let me know if you see anything bent or broken about the suggestions below.

First, lets allow a character with the right High Concept to use his/her own body as the focus for the enchanted item.  I have an idea for a mystical martial artist who pushes his chi around to give himself a power boost.  Lets say he took Channeling (chi/spirit) and Ritual (chi/spirit).  Can't do everything that spirit can (no veils), but it gives some access to biomancy sorts of abilities.

He has some focus item slots, which he uses for enchanted items.  Maybe he buys refinement to add more slots.

Skin-Like-Iron.  This one's easy, it's just like Harry's leather duster.  Good lore gives a +3, add a slot to make it a +4, that's a +4 block or Armor:2.  Use more slots for more uses per session.  My impression is that activation is part of you defensive roll, which is a free action.  It's a block that you don't have to spend an standard action to create, or an immediate bit of armor if the block wouldn't stop the attack anyway.

Fists-Of-Steel.  Similar to Harry's kinetic energy ring.  Good lore for a Weapon:3, so our monk's fists are now magically powered weapons.  My monk has fists equal to or higher than Discipline, so lets use Fists to target the attack.  Boom, one big fat weapon:3 mystical strike, backed up by a high fists score.  Lets add two more item slots, so we could increase the power to a weapon:5, but instead, we'll say that those shifts go into duration, so the effect lasts 3 exchanges total.  In fact, this "item" is a little less useful than Harry's ring, since you can't attack from range, so maybe that plus two shifts for duration makes it a weapon:3 that lasts for a full scene?  Use more item slots to increase uses per session.  I assume that Harry activates his force ring and targets it in the same action, so I guess you should be able to roll a Fists attack as part of the same standard action that activates Fists-Of-Steel.

Wire-fu.  My monk should also be able to do some of that wire-fu/Jedi-force-jump stuff.  Inhuman speed would be one way to accomplish that, but I like the idea that it's something he can do when he summons his will and focus, which he may run out of at an inopportune moment.  This "enchanted item" will give him a boost to athletics.  Again, a good lore starts us off with a +3 item.  I think I only need +2 to my athletics, so lets spend this point on frequency, giving us 3 uses per session.  My athletics is already pretty impressive, so I think I'll only need this one exchange at a time.  But another character might want the defensive boost that comes with better athletics to last a whole combat, so more item slots can be spent on duration.  Again, we're activating the power as part of the athletics roll that triggers it.

Possibly a character that makes extensive use of this sort of "crafting" could buy a power that allows him/her to swap additional uses per session between the powers, drawing them all from one common "pool"?

Wait a second, uses per session, scene duration effects, carefully predefined effects, did I just turn the DFRPG into D&D 4e?  :o   ;)

Offline luminos

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Re: Magic to boost skills, adapting enchanted item rules
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2010, 12:22:14 AM »
Man, I like some of this stuff  ;D.  I think I'm going to use some of it in a monk character write up.  I think I'll take channeling, and then use a series of stunts that let me substitute in various different skills for the discipline role.  Vibrating palm rote:  5 shift attack that uses fists for targeting.  Man, that would be seriously devastating stuff.
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Offline Moriden

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Re: Magic to boost skills, adapting enchanted item rules
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2010, 12:25:35 AM »
I'm toying with the idea of using three shifts to add +1 to a skill no matter what its rating is and one per one to "replace" a skill with the spell skill. using the block mechanic. It seems to work but i wont really know untill ive done some playtesting.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2010, 12:29:29 AM by Moriden »
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Offline exploding_brain

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Re: Magic to boost skills, adapting enchanted item rules
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2010, 02:25:00 AM »
One of the reasons I thought of the enchanted item rules is because they need to be set up ahead of time.  A wizard's great advantage is versatility, they can do almost anything, given enough time and preparation. Allowing wizards to do too much with skills, using evocation, gives them all that versatility without the setup time.  They could trump any other character, because they can do anything, and do it just as quickly.

I went with enchanted items because it forces them to spend refresh on setting up abilities ahead of time, instead of spending it on enhancing their raw power or versatility.  They lose versatility in exchange for increase potency in particular areas.  If channelers and evokers can boost other skills on the fly, what happens to thamuatugy and ritual, and characters who specialize in the skills the wizard is boosting?

Offline Deadmanwalking

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Re: Magic to boost skills, adapting enchanted item rules
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2010, 02:33:59 AM »
I'll reiterate from another thread. My opinions on this can be found on p. 26 to 29 of this thread:

http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,15852.250.html

As can those of a few other people.

Offline exploding_brain

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Re: Magic to boost skills, adapting enchanted item rules
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2010, 01:46:30 PM »
Yeah, I read over those pages.  Interesting stuff.  Using magic to replacing the skill you want with one of your high spell-casting skills is a good mechanic that could help in some situations.

I was trying to get at a slightly different effect, providing a boost to a skill that you're already good at, rather than using magic to "pretend" to be good at it.

A mystically enhanced martial artist should be Good or Great at Fists and Athletics to begin with, and get a boost from Discipline, much like the Knights of the Cross are Good or Great with Weapons, and get a boost from Conviction.

Offline iago

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Re: Magic to boost skills, adapting enchanted item rules
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2010, 03:12:46 PM »
Yeah, in general, skills are "boosted" by being replaced by a spell effect that has a higher intrinsic shift value than the rating of the skill. Since spells largely determine effect in advance (which is different from general skill use which determines effect at the end), it's really about saying "I want to generate a roll result of X for Y skill".  You want to be able to lift something like a creature with an effective Epic (+7) Might? You need a spell effect that's 7 shifts strong. Etc.
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Offline exploding_brain

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Re: Magic to boost skills, adapting enchanted item rules
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2010, 03:27:05 PM »
Right.  I don't want to allow spell effects to do this.  That would probably break the system.  That's why I'm focusing on enchanted items, which are (mostly) purchased with refresh.  I thought that would be in line with other Supernatural powers that add shifts to various skills.

Do you think it would match the design philosophy better to focus on supernatural powers that address this sort of thing directly, like the True Faith series of powers?

Offline iago

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Re: Magic to boost skills, adapting enchanted item rules
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2010, 03:34:45 PM »
Do you think it would match the design philosophy better to focus on supernatural powers that address this sort of thing directly, like the True Faith series of powers?

I think you've got some interesting ideas going here. But yeah, I'm typically more inclined to look at powers for things which aren't *really* spellcasting (despite Harry often saying "yeah, the Alphas know this one spell", I don't buy into that perspective from the system POV). Building things more from the perspective of "stacked stunts = powers" is the idiom I'm most comfortable in, here. But maybe the enchanted items setup gives you a more comfortable toolset for what you're after; it's not *wrong* to use it that way.

Ultimately the system exposes the toolbox in various places because we *want* you to hack it to provide the play experience you want. While we will come on here and state often strongly held opinions about how we'd do things ourselves, we also try to avoid coming at that sort of discussion with a Voice Of Incontrovertable Authority. The system should be tweaked and tuned if it's not giving you a play experience that you want -- this is not "rule zero"-ism so much as embracing the idea that, since Fate comes from Fudge, the toolbox, the hacking, that *is* an intended feature, and altering the game to suit what you want it to do is Playing Correctly.
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Offline exploding_brain

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Re: Magic to boost skills, adapting enchanted item rules
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2010, 03:39:22 PM »
... aaaaaand my impending "Fred didn't endorse my idea" sulk is completely eradicated by Fred reminding my why I love FATE and The DFRPG to begin with.  ;)

Thanks for the perspective check. :)