Rite of Ascension?

[Moriden]

I'm pretty solid on most of the rules but figuring out what the complexity of a ritual seems to be beyond me without some kind of chart so i figured id put out here what i want it to do and see what methods others can come up with.


This would be a ritual taught to my character during his apprenticeship to a Wyld Fae/demon like creature its purpose is to "restore a man to the purity of the ancient ways" or less obliquely to transform a human into a less then [or more then] human state. essentially creating a form of scion.

mechanically it gives me inhuman toughness strength and recovery as well as aspect of the beast and claws. [ all of which I'm paying for, the ritual is mostly just background flavor to explain being a scion without a heritage]

so the cruncjy bits is getting
 

Tattoo Transformation
   Inhuman Strength                      -2
   Inhuman Recovery*                   -2
   Supernatural Toughness*           -4
   Claws                                      -1   
   Echoes of the Beast                 -1
   Human Guise                          -0
*Catch                                       +3
   Holy/Gold: can be researched

I'm completely at a loss for what the complexity of this ritual should be and more importantly why it should be that. any help would be greatly appreciated



Brian Blacknight

[Archmage_Cowl]

well the ritual is remaking who you essentially are so i would say it has to have enough power to "take you out" as per transformation then another couple shifts of power to grant the abilities. I'm kinda out of it so i dont trust my brain to give you fully accurate numbers so im just gonna go out on a limb and say you're probably looking at around 40 shifts of power.

[Moriden]

yes i knew it was going to be high. unfortunately what I'm looking for is the specific math and reasons behind the numbers.








Brian Blacknight

[Moriden]

Some other questions .

it has to have enough power to fill up my stress track and all my potential consequences right? so do i actually take those consequences or is that just a "it has to be x powerful " thing.

can i simply go with the ritual and not need that extra 20 shifts of power. ?



Brian Blacknight

[iago]

Your opponent is the one that chooses whether or not to fill consequence boxes. In order to assert that there's no point in even trying (though your opponent might anyway), you have to produce a large enough stress effect that the taken out result is inevitable *no matter what*. If you're okay with your spell just mangling the crap out of him and not killing him as one possible outcome, setting the target lower works too.

Keep in mind that in order to cast one of these sorts of spells, Victor Sells spent most of the entire length of Storm Front doing preparation.  This is not something someone does casually or in the middle of dealing with seven other kinds of problems. 

Plus, if your target is a supernatural creature, or behind a particularly strong threshold, you have to account for that as well.

Remote-death spells are *hard work*.

[Moriden]

Your opponent is the one that chooses whether or not to fill consequence boxes. In order to assert that there's no point in even trying (though your opponent might anyway), you have to produce a large enough stress effect that the taken out result is inevitable *no matter what*. If you're okay with your spell just mangling the crap out of him and not killing him as one possible outcome, setting the target lower works too.

Keep in mind that in order to cast one of these sorts of spells, Victor Sells spent most of the entire length of Storm Front doing preparation.  This is not something someone does casually or in the middle of dealing with seven other kinds of problems.

Plus, if your target is a supernatural creature, or behind a particularly strong threshold, you have to account for that as well.

Remote-death spells are *hard work*.

Thank you iago, that helps some. so since this is a trans formative spell that's intentionally being cast on myself to one make it easier and two avoid breaking the fourth? law i can safely say that i wont be resisting it and do not need to fill up all the consequence slots.

that leaves me with the questions of what is the base complexity, and do i still have to fill up my stress track?
is it one shift per stunt added, two per, or something less concrete?
How many shifts for permanent/full transformation
etc



Brian Blacknight

[iago]

Thank you iago, that helps some. so since this is a trans formative spell that's intentionally being cast on myself to one make it easier and two avoid breaking the fourth? law i can safely say that i wont be resisting it and do not need to fill up all the consequence slots.

Oh, right. Transformation.

Laws like the first and fourth are about what you can't do to other people. Go ahead and kill or transform *yourself*, that's fine. (If it weren't fine, then shapeshifting yourself would be off limits -- making trouble for the alphas.)

And remember, once you ascend, you're likely to have so damn much power you're definitely an NPC.

On that note, your GM would probably want to charge you a huge amount of shifts to represent the power it takes to, you know, be a god, on top of the basics of just achieving that taken out bit.

[Moriden]

And remember, once you ascend, you're likely to have so damn much power you're definitely an NPC.

On that note, your GM would probably want to charge you a huge amount of shifts to represent the power it takes to, you know, be a god, on top of the basics of just achieving that taken out bit.

*laughs* did you read the original description iago? Specifically this part...

[ all of which I'm paying for, the ritual is mostly just background flavor to explain being a scion without a heritage]

[iago]

Sure -- but the question was about the math.

[Moriden]

Sure -- but the question was about the math. Smiley

yeahp, your npc comment didn't really make much sense though since im paying for the stunts that i get.


Back to the math though. so your saying its not a clear case of one or two shifts of complexity per stunt given, its more of a "oh x amount feels right"?

[iago]

yeahp, your npc comment didn't really make much sense though since im paying for the stunts that i get.

Back to the math though. so your saying its not a clear case of one or two shifts of complexity per stunt given, its more of a "oh x amount feels right"?

I'm more sayin' these sorts of spells always live in a bit of a plot-device territory, like some of the big powerful NPCs. Entire stories are written about spells like this (

(click to show/hide)

Welcome to the Jungle for the hag spell, Dead Beat for the whole Darkhallow thing, off the top of my head

). So if the GM wants to assign a "the story is THIS BIG OF A DEAL" tax on top of it all, that makes sense to me. Despite our needs to codify spellcraft in the system, there's a point where system is going to leave off, because from a novel perspective, magic is as much art as science.

[Moriden]

Okay that works. if you where assessing such a tax how much would you go with? 

also i still don't have a clue what the base complexity would be...

[iago]

Okay that works. if you where assessing such a tax how much would you go with? 

also i still don't have a clue what the base complexity would be...

I'm losing context here, honestly. How about you give me a "fresh" question that spells out all that you're trying to accomplish?

[Wyrdrune]

Oh, right. Transformation.

Laws like the first and fourth are about what you can't do to other people. Go ahead and kill or transform *yourself*, that's fine.

ok, i've got a question. let's say, i want to transform myself - or a willing target (just don't tell the council). (or let's say i want to give an ally the ability to breath water... )

what must I take into account? i presume the spell targets his or her endurance as a maneuver to stick the WATERBREATHING aspect on him or her.

must the spell just overcome the endurance rank or must i prepare the spell for endurance+fudge dice (which could make if quite difficult, when all are +)?

example: tha target has endurance 3 - should the spell then have a complexity of 3 (which would also mean that a practicioner with lore of 4 must take no additional preparations) or is the spell against and endurance roll? (which could have a maximum of 7, for which the spellcaster needs to channel more juice into the spell and needs additional preparations and/or foci or invoking of aspects).

[Moriden]

the Internets ate my last reply so here goes.

Say you want an effect that temporarily gives you the equivalent bonus as a stunt for example well use inhuman strength and or claws. what would the complexity be?

or say you want to use a form of divination ritual to give yourself the ability to understand all spoken languages...